Ep. 23 The Power of Repair: Recovering After a Fight
Ep. 23 Making Repairs
Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor. And a yoga teacher, a gen X-er and a millennial and a mother and daughter join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and Penney. Hi, and
Penney: welcome to our conversation around recovery. After a fight where we're going to talk about making repairs in relationships. remembering, we'll talk about this primarily in couples relationships, but we can. adapted or try and make this apply to other relationships also.
Janae: Yeah, we'll do our best to add little. Insights and tips to make this. Work well or taking it from the perspective of other relationships, but just know that. Uh, repair attempts go across all relationships.
Janae: Absolutely.
Penney: All right. So first question, what is making repairs in relationships and why is this important? So a repair attempt is [00:01:00] anything that stops a conflict from escalating. hopefully this is something that we are doing really, really early on. In the conflict and not something we're waiting until the conflict has gone really far to have a conversation around. So, if you think about a couple's argument that we start something, it starts a little bit of a conflict.
Penney: It doesn't have to be a full blown fight, but we're starting into conflict. The sooner that we can say, whoa, hold on. Uh, let's slow it down. The better.
Penney: But repairs can be made at any point along the path. And there's also a specific steps to repair attempts. We're not going to go into all five of those steps in this podcast. We're really just going to talk about this first step. And the repair attempt.
Janae: Yeah, and I really like within the definition it's. Any thing that you can do. That deescalates the situation.
Janae: So it's quite, [00:02:00] open-ended around. You and your partner getting creative about what works for you and picking, you know, depending on the situation. Something unique. We'll give some suggestions during our tip section. But really, um, this can be something that is different every time and you and your partner. Could choose to take some time and maybe brainstorm some ideas.
Janae: Absolutely.
Penney: Because it may work. It may not work and it may work in one situation and audit another. So having an arsenal was always a good thing. also remembering that a lack of making repair attempts is on the list of things. I think Gottman's do a list of top six things that can lead to a divorce. And really the lack of repairs around conflict is one of those, because there will be conflicts in relationships.
Penney: And if we don't manage those conflicts and they build up over time, Maybe come really heavy in a relationship and lead to a breakdown in the relationship. .
Janae: Yeah. And it's [00:03:00] interesting. We've talked about some of the other things that's on that list of six things that predict divorce. Being the horseman that we've talked about. And, um, The Gottman's. Talk about how the horseman can be survived. As long as the couple is good at making and receiving
Penney: repairs.
Penney: Yes, absolutely. So repair tubs are key. Again, there's several steps to repair, to making a full repair. And we're not going to talk through those. That might be a good idea for future episodes. We're really just going to talk about this, uh, first part of the repair of slowing it down and coming back together. Yeah.
Janae: If you're interested in the full. Uh, repair exercise. Let us know, hit us up on social media, or if you're listening to this on Spotify, there's the question and answer section and let us know that you're interested in that. And we're happy to make a podcast about that.
Penney: Yep. Absolutely. So, [00:04:00] um, how do we make repairs for what we're going to talk about today? Uh, We're going to really talk about that coming back together or the slowing down of the conflict as it starts.
Penney: So either the conflict has happened and we're coming back together for a coming back, you know, like a, an initial coming back together after our conflict, after we've taken our 20 minutes, if you've listened to the flooding exercise or episode, If not, uh, that would be a good one to go back and listen to. Um, or it's right as the conflict is starting and we're trying to stop it in its tracks and slow it down immediately.
Penney: So either one of those points in time is really where we're going to talk about and really address today. Remembering that when we're talking about, uh, uh, uh, coming back together or a repair. If you think about that emotional bank accounts that commons talk about is that five to one ratio. So for every negative, you got to have five positives to build that back up. So the sooner you can slow it down, the less negative you're going to be in your emotional bank account. [00:05:00]
Janae: Yeah, and I think a good way of looking at it when we're referring back to those six things that predict divorce. If you are extremely negative in your bank account, you're going to go bankrupt. Uh, yeah. That's true. Then, you know, you're, you're out of money or you're you're out of attempts or no more loans, like yeah.
Janae: So making sure that yeah, for every. Negative. You have positives to bounce it out and then you can stay positive in that. Um, bank account with each other.
Penney: Absolutely. So then you can survive a little bit if there's a few negatives there without. Uh, going deeply in debt and trying to recover from that. Especially if there are multiple conflicts, we're in the holiday season. For so many couples. And maybe more kids.
Penney: I talk to more kids or adults who said, you know, every Christmas my parents had conflict and it's just what happened. And it became a part of the Christmas thing. And. And you see that in a lot of holiday [00:06:00] movies, right? That's part of the, the thing of that. There's always a conflict. And just remembering that we really need to try and stay positive in those accounts, um, especially over the holiday season.
Penney: So the more we can do to either make quick repairs. Or to build up in that bank account with positive stuff, the better off we are. Yeah.
Janae: And I would say instead of phrasing it as making sure that there's positives in that bank account, if there's multiple fights or conflicts would be more of a rephrasing of when did there are.
Janae: Yeah. We talk about this all the time, but conflict in relationships is going to happen. It's normal. And as long as you know how to fight fair and repair, maybe that could be a little slogan. Fair and repair. Um, then conflict is okay. And conflict is actually assigned that you're avoiding one of the other horsemen, which is stonewalling, where you're just not talking about things.
Janae: Absolutely. Um, so it's okay that there's going to be conflict around Christmas stuff because there's a lot of moving [00:07:00] parts. Um, if you listened to last week's episode about mental load, Both partners. Whoever's you know, the parents or whoever and the relationship, I'm sure both of you have a full plate.
Janae: Yes. And so there's a lot going on and there's going to be stuff that comes up because we're a little bit more dysregulated around this season as normal. And you might notice just within yourself that you're feeling a little bit more. Um, Popping into this. A little bit more anxious or fight flight stages. Um, And also for a lot of people, the holidays can bring up. Points of like grief or mourning and sadness. Like, depending on. What's going on in their lives and what's happened around certain dates around the holidays, or who's not there.
Janae: Like, I think there's a lot of expectation on your everything's supposed to be happy. And then. When you're trying to function within those expectations, it gets really hard. So. Just normalizing [00:08:00] that normalizing
Penney: the conflict will happen. So. So let's have less of an impact overall and make repairs quickly. Yeah. All right.
Penney: So let's jump into our tips. I have seven tips that, um, we're going to talk about are things that I suggest, although again, Uh, figuring it out. What works for you adding to your own repertoire and arsenal is good. So have lots of things on hand. Yeah,
Janae: full toolbox. Cause one of these might work at one point and you might need to use something
Penney: different at a different point.
Penney: Absolutely. Okay. So the first one is just doing beat, having to do over. Uh, this is a big one for me in my relationship. I use this one a lot. It's probably my biggest go-to and that is really the, um, What. Can I try that again? Um, or, uh, that felt really critical. Would you like to try that again? Uh, anything that just says, oh, like I heard how that came across.
Penney: That's not what I meant. Can I try again? Um, and reigning it back in. It's like [00:09:00] that you throw the line out there and you've got to reel it back in quickly and just really try to stop it before the criticism is felt in the stonewalling. It happens in those worst men kick in and we're off to the races with the conflict. So anything, and in this moment that will help to reign it back in.
Janae: Yeah.
Janae: And when we're talking about this, Uh, applying to other relationships. One way I've seen this used in parenting relationships is, um, this becoming a thing where they say. Oh, can I have a do over? Let's rewind. And then you can make it really playful of like, Pretending like you're rewinding your speech where you're like,
Janae: Yeah, let's try again.
Janae: And you know, whether you're at the parent doing that rewind or the child doing the rewind, like it works on both sides and. So that's the way I've seen that that repair attempt has been done on the parenting
Penney: front. I know definitely as a parent myself, uh, there were definitely days I would come home [00:10:00] and already feeling worn out, burnt out, exhausted and stepping into the. Needing to be a parent role. And having moments where I would say, well, I am. I am in a negative space and coming across really critical.
Penney: I'm going to give myself a time out and I'll come back ready to engage. Uh, and just recognizing the harm or those moment or that mood or that emotion that is coming up in that moment. And I still do that sometimes that like, I. I know how I'm coming across and I can tell within three minutes to five minutes of walking in the door, And you can do that at any point as a parent to make the apology and say, well, let me try that again.
Penney: Or. Uh, that sounded really critical and you're someone that I love and I don't want to hurt. So let me, let me have a moment or let me retry that.
Janae: and one thing that's been coming up a lot around. The holidays too, is the expectation of. Adult children coming back for the holidays. And one of the things that was really [00:11:00] interesting that I've seen is like, um, How there's been quite a lot of pushback from. Adult children saying. Well, I'm choosing to engage in the relationships that I feel like are supportive and healthy to me. And a part of that is like, Grieving or going through what happened during their childhood.
Janae: And a lot of them talk about like, My. Parents would do things and there would be no apology. There would be no attempt to say, sorry, or that they were wrong. No accountability on the parents' end because they're the parent. And so even if they make mistakes, like you're the child, so you just have to go with it. And so again, allowing us to be on multiple fronts.
Janae: I mean, you could do this for a workplace in coworkers, too. Like. You know, just because you're the boss or the manager, like if you make a mistake, like make the repair tips. Yeah. [00:12:00] Take them on.
Penney: Definitely only him. It's important to just say, well, I realize how that came across. And let me try that again.
Penney: Or can I do that different? Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole list. Um, That Gottman's have some of them from the list that I can use. I can list off really fast if you don't have any ideas for your own. Um, from what I wrote, like, Uh, phrases to use. Yeah. So again, wait, let me try that again. Um, that felt critical or it brought that one up.
Penney: I'm sorry. That came out sounding critical. Can I try it again? That sounded harsh. I'm sorry. Give me another chance. Oh, I really re overreacted to that again. I'm sorry. Can I say that in a kinder, gentler way? I'm really trying to be gentle right now. I know I'm not doing a good job. Um, can you just bear with me while I try and get through this and, and repair it? Um, I'm feeling both of us having really big emotions come up.
Penney: Can we hang in there together in the emotions and not withdraw, and then we'll try and do better as we get through [00:13:00] this. For trying to have a heart conversation. And I love you. I'm sorry. It was really harsh with you. So there's just a few suggestions. , maybe think about things that you could put. to really slow down the momentum, have some kindness and compassion for the rough thing that's going on and then work to connect that. Next one is a three breath hug.
Penney: This is also another one I use in my relationship. , if the conflict has started or there's, , that moment where it's coming up or there's been a few things said, and I need to slow it down, that my partner and I will do this a three breath hug since just like what it is coming together in a hug. And taking three breaths together. there's a saying around this from, uh, when you hold a child in your arms or hug a mother or husband, or your friend, if you breathe in and out three times, your happiness will be multiplied.
Penney: At least tenfold. So I think just that. That deep breath that synchronizing of coming together, bringing the breath together and creating that reconnection is really important. And [00:14:00] that's what this one does is creates that reconnection and brings us back together as a couple or as a parent child relationship.
Penney: Or if you're really close with your coworkers, hug them to. I mean we can hug anyone. Um, I often joke that I think hugs have been replaced handshakes in our world. So, I think that this is a good way to put some breadth and some connection into that.
Janae: I also think that it's a good. Way of rehumanizing each other. Because when you're starting to go down that path. You're tiptoeing towards negative sentiment override. Which is like, you're starting to think. Everything that the other person is saying is they're trying to hurt you. Or, you know, you just start to feel really negative towards them.
Penney: That they, everything they do has bad
Janae: intentions. And so you can start to see them as like,
Janae: You versus then they're the enemy now you're no longer a United front against the problem, but there are now the problem. [00:15:00] And so this hug can re trigger. The parts of your brain that are like, oh no, this is a safe person. This is someone I love. This is a relationship that's important to me. And. That can be really hard to flip away from that lizard brain moment of. Defend. Getaway.
Janae: Sure.
Penney: Because if we do this the right way and we're doing a belly breath, then we're triggering that vagal break and telling our brain. Uh, we're safe. This is a safe person. This is a safe space and I can bring it back into regulation really fast. Yeah.
Janae: I would say. Almost every single one of these tips are. posed around regulation techniques. Absolutely. so if you keep that in mind, when you're doing it, like that's going to be helpful. Yeah.
Penney: But then there's science behind why we do it.
Penney: It's not just a suggestion, but there's some, some facts behind it.
Janae: And you need your body to be on the same page as your [00:16:00] brain. Or in order to get your brain to calm down your body and is to be calm. Yeah.
Penney: Then we all have to work together and. It's a whole system. Yes. Oh, the next one, holding hands or any sort of physical, any sort of physical touch as we're doing repairs and aftermath of a fight in my office with couples. And on retreat, and in my own personal life, having some sort of physical touch during the conversation makes a big difference.
Penney: I have couples that cross legs, they might touch feet. They hold hands. Or they'll sit by each other and touch legs. , but this one is really that if you're coming back together, holding hands, Or even if you're not at a place you can really hold strong hands. I have some couples that will say, I don't know if I'm ready for that much contact, but I think just Palm to Palm, laying on each other or having any sort of physical contact can really create some sort of connection. It's interesting.
Penney: When we think about, , just societal views of a couple, you often think about them holding hands and how the image of holding [00:17:00] hands. Is brings about this meaning of like you unity. Like if we hold hands, if you think about holding hands in a circle of people or when we hold hands around the world and kind of that image, or that creates a sense of unity and teamwork of people coming together in connection. And, uh, lowering that conflict.
Penney: And so I think it's important to think about the meaning that comes behind that. The other things , that, that does is there has been some research that shows that when we do hold hands, It does lower our stress response. Again, talking about the body that our heart rates lower, and we really can have an, increase in our ability to manage stress and a decrease in distress response.
Janae: Yeah, I think that. It's helpful to know that. Any kind of physical touch. Is helpful. So. Even if. In my relationship, even if one of us isn't ready for that. [00:18:00] There still can be a sign of like, I'm still here. I'm still with you. I'm still in this just can't be all the way in it quite yet. Um, and that can be kind of like a signal of that. Yeah.
Penney: So next
Penney: one is the shake, your butt technique. So shake your butt technique incorporates those scientific pieces of movement and adding some playfulness.
Penney: And this is just as simple as it sounds. Uh, let's say you have started a conversation with criticism. We have forgotten our. Positive needs statement and jumped right into criticism. And then you immediately realize what you've done and you just turn around and start shaking your butt at your partner. Or anybody else who you're talking to do it in the workplace, have some fun with it, right? Yeah. The couple of things that's going to do for some, it's definitely going to break up the conflict because how do you continue to fight with some money that is shaking their buddy at you?
Penney: That I just, I don't know if you could maybe, maybe not. Um, No, we're not saying
Janae: in a taunting way. No.
Penney: Not like, uh, But just like being silly and playful and, um, if you really want to [00:19:00] be fun, you can, you know, sing a song with it and really shake do it. Uh, And then hopefully your partner joins in and you can do that together.
Penney: Or the other person can shake with you just knowing that that's a signal for whoop. I was going down their own path and I'm resetting and bringing it back, which we're adding in the humor we're adding in the movement, which helps to break up that stress. Uh, recycle that stress cycle response. Or recycling stress. For sending it back in and making it something else we're recycling.
Penney: It does that mean better? Uh,
Janae: yeah, I think if you wanted to, you could combine all of the previous steps. You could be shaking your butt. You could be singing songs. Uh, duel over and holding their hand. And then end with a three breath. And that is a hundred percent foolproof. Repair. There
Penney: you go. Put it all together. And then you can add in the next one, which is swaying .
Penney: Um, so I actually had a couple that introduced this to me, and then I did some research around it. And it again is set in the brain and the [00:20:00] response from the brain. And I'll go really quickly into why this effective and it's those mirror neurons that are in our brain, that we have an infancy. And that really are the things that teach us how to talk, how to eat. Uh, how to be human as we watch other people.
Penney: And so when we do this swaying, you really just stand in. In front of each other. And then we start to sway back and forth and join in that with our partner. And this is one of those that you can do without touching if we're not ready for touching yet, but we're ready for that connection. And the coming back together, or you have said something. Uh, before. So it can be done after, right.
Penney: The conflict is escalated. We've taken our 20 minutes to calm down. We come back together and we just come back and sway together. It doesn't have to be physical touch. There can be, if you want to do more like a dance step. or it can be stepping apart and just swaying together in the rhythm and allowing those mirror neurons to check in with the other person, look at their face. And look at their intent and say, this is a safe person and I can sway with them. As a [00:21:00] form of mirroring their movement and connection. or we can do it before we have gotten into the conflict.
Penney: As we're heading into that do over. If you don't have the words for a do-over to start this way. And allow your partner to sway with you, and then you don't necessarily have to accept the repair attempt. But just the movement. And allowing those neurons to do their job, really create that eye contact. And sends a signal to the brain that this is a safe person. So really, if you could do the three minutes of eye contact as you're swaying together, uh, that's what science recommends.
Penney: Doesn't have to be. But if you can, I think that's beautiful and maybe you start apart and then as you feels safer. You can move closer and eventually sway together with more physical contact. If that's what works for you.
Janae: Yeah. You're, I'm curious here. Couple that brought this up. Did they. Learn that from someone, or was this something that they just naturally found that they were doing?
Janae: Or what was the story there?
Penney: No, they learned it. I didn't really ask for a lot of details. , I know we were just [00:22:00] going through these techniques and they say that they use the sway technique. , and I couldn't find it. , From anyone or anybody that has documented or talked about it? So I just did my own research into why swaying would create. , connection and how the mirror neurons play into that.
Penney: So, , I don't know where they learned it. I didn't really ask for details, but I, I can tell you just based on the neuroscience of what I read, it would work. And works for them and have been playing with it within my own relationship and can see the effectiveness of that because so many couples do say, I don't know if I'm ready to hug.
Penney: I don't think I can touch and hold hands. And once I feel criticized sometimes to do overstatement, doesn't help. , And that this couple, if the one of them has collapsed on the floor and just in a really collapsed state and they just start the swaying with the eye contact, that it really does create this movement and this reconnection that can allow you to come back together. Hmm. That's awesome.
Penney: So again, if you can do the eye contact for three minutes, it really does help [00:23:00] to fire those mirror neurons that take you back to that infancy of this is a safe person. This is who I'm connected to and, , signals our brain to be understanding and connected. Hmm.
Penney: So the next one is whispering. So, , this is one I used as a parent and one I strongly encouraged to use in any situation. , because if you think about voices, get louder and louder, louder, it starts to feel more and more unsafe, but really if we can bring it to a place of whisper and a quiet. That kind of in a world of loud. That we can have some quiet and gentleness when we're starting to feel flooded. So maybe when you're asking for your do over. Or your coming back together, don't do it with a lot of voices and don't, don't do it with, aggressive voices to do it with a whisper of, you know, bringing it from loud.
Penney: You're arguing to.
Penney: That really set a critical, and I really want a chance to do that over. And just reset the tone brand [00:24:00] into a place of intimacy and safety and
Janae: calm. Yeah. It's like, how would you speak to. Scared animal or a small. Baby, like. I don't know. I think that could be a helpful reframe of. Who you're talking to. Like, yeah.
Penney: It is also a shift in focus, right?
Penney: If you're yelling no trouble in hearing, although you're probably not really listening. Right. But as soon as somebody shifts us to it shifts to a whisper, you really have to focus in. And really hear the words that they're saying and really hear that this sincerity. And hopefully the accountability and the repair attempt in their voice. Yeah. Uh, last one, go outside. , if you are going to engage in a repair, do it outside. Hold hands while you're walking or start side by side, as you're walking that, having that fresh air and the. Just being outside.
Penney: What we know [00:25:00] about being outside is lower. Blood pressure decrease in stress. We deepen our breath, which again, we're reaching for those belly breaths to trickle. To trigger that a bagel break. And help us feel safer and out of fight flight. So coming back together and maybe the rest of the conversation that happens is happens outside.
Penney: Is your walking or the coming back together, the swaying or whatever it is, go outside and do it because it will. It will help with that stress response and bring us into a place of connection and repairs.
Janae: I would add to this, if you don't have the time or space, or maybe this is at a weird time of day and you cannot. Necessarily go for a walk, like sit out on your front stoop. Go out on your back porch.
Janae: If you're in a car rolled on the market and roll down the windows, like whatever you can do to break the barrier between you and being outside. Works for this yes. Um, if you, if none of those options are open, you [00:26:00] can bring the outside to you. In a similar way. It's not quite. As impactful, but play ocean sounds, play nature sounds.
Janae: Um, Uh, We were talking about this with a student and she brought up that there's gray noise and white noise, but there's also green noise. That you can Google and it just plays like a weird conglomeration of nature sounds. Yeah. Um, So you could try that. , you can also. Stare at green things.
Janae: , like look at pictures of nature and stuff. That's the less helpful when you're trying to like, have a conversation, but. If you can't necessarily go outside or go for a walk, you can do other things to kind of. Break out of our little boxes that we
Penney: put ourselves in. We're a great Christmas gift.
Penney: Get a really pretty nature scene and hang it. Where maybe [00:27:00] conflicts happen in your house. There is some research that shows that even just looking at pictures of nature. I can create, , that, that trigger those same responses in us. So get a beautiful nature scene in wherever it is that those things might happen and agree that we're just going to stand and stare at it.
Penney: And that's going to be our repair attempt. Grab him, walk to the nature scene, stare at the picture. Again, it might seem silly or something that we wouldn't do, but again, we haven't done it because we haven't tried it. And if it works and it slows down, the argument saves money in that bank account saves. So it was bankruptcy.
Penney: We want that. We want that for our relationships. Yeah, I think
Janae: that that's great. Point to end the, all of these tips on of these can sound. Off the wall silly. And when you're in that state of , Conflict. Things like this field really out of reach and the more you practice them, the more they become within reach.
Janae: And also it [00:28:00] might feel like, well, that's a silly thing that. But it's like, what do you have to lose? You're already in a conflict. If it doesn't work, I guess you'll keep being in a conflict. But it might work.
Penney: And if it works and you can save yourself, you know, 30 minutes to an hour to set a couple sets three to five hours, or even days of conflict. And all of the stress and the stress hormones, and the damage that that does to relationships, then why not? Why not try it. Yep.
Janae: Yep. So our challenge to you would be to. Noodle around on these ideas, make, maybe make tweaks then. For your own. , And maybe even have either in your mind or write it down or discuss it with your partner, like the next time this happens, or the next time we feel. Uh, conflict starting to bubble up. This is what we're going to try. Yeah. Again, this is a great one. Similar to [00:29:00] our mental load episode last week. If you want to send and share it to your partner. So you can both be on the same page that might be helpful.
Penney: Yeah. Anybody else that you maybe need to remake repairs with or? Have conversations around whether that's kids, spouse. Coworkers. Siblings. Whoever that
Janae: is.
Janae: Yeah.
Janae: All right. So we're moving towards our, it takes two,
Janae: section. So our question today for it takes two is how do you handle when one of you in the relationship is ready for a repair and the other person is not. And my kind of thoughts around this when we were writing this question was like the bouncing back and forth that can happen when. One of you is ready.
Janae: The other's not, you do a repair attempt. It gets rejected. And then the person who was ready before is now even less ready. Or the person who was ready before [00:30:00] now isn't ready anymore. And it like. It can become a cycle. I can.
Penney: Absolutely. I've seen that happen.
Janae: So I'm curious what are ways to handle
Penney: that?
Penney: Oh, where's I recommend handling that with couples is, uh, well, I was going to say, use the aftermath of filled bids.
Penney: Uh, But, um, That's not a skill that, um, listeners necessarily would have on board. So I would say how to handle that is.
Penney: Working on your flooding. And, and I think also just doing some internal checking in, I feel like a lot of times that happens when it's like, well, you weren't ready when I was ready.
Penney: So I'm not just, just. I am not going to be ready now. And we get into a place of like resentment or anger instead of perspective and understanding of. Do I want the fight to be resolved or do I want to come back and make a repair? And can I have empathy for understanding where my partner is in this moment and where I am in this moment?
Penney: And I think if we could switch that mindset, that's helpful. Also doing some regulation, as far [00:31:00] as being able to go for a walk, do some breathing, do some things to really help you and distract you. Um, to take time. Or sometimes it really helps for there to be. Uh, okay. So if I'm the one approaching the repair first and my partner isn't ready. Then I can also say, can I come back in five minutes or can I come back in 10 minutes? And so that there's a plan for that.
Penney: And so it's less of a feeling like a rejection and more a, I just need a few more minutes and sometimes that's helpful. Also sometimes you see this around partners that want to have some sort of a physical connection, because they're ready for that. And maybe one of the other. Uh, individuals in the relationship are not ready for that. So that's when you can do a sway technique or walking or some sort of a movement. the doesn't require physical touch, but still has some sort of a connection to it to come back to the table. Mm.
Janae: Yeah, that makes sense. Um,
Janae: What about when maybe one of you isn't ready for repair and neither of you are ready for [00:32:00] repair and. Obviously life has to keep moving.
Janae: And you go about. The rest of your day, do you then make a plan of like, we're going to come back to this? Yes. At this time. Yep.
Penney: Absolutely. That can be, I think maybe it's silly, but scheduling appointments and relationships are important. So, you know, we'll readdress this at 7:00 PM tonight or. let's have a phone call or a conversation tomorrow morning at nine, or, if it's something we're not going to get to till the weekend. Then we can go about life and treat each other with respect and kindness, but we do have to go through the steps of making a repair when I'm initially introducing.
Penney: And I know Gottman's recommendation is when you learn to do aftermath of the fight, which is go through the full process of making repairs, which I know we're not going through. That you practice it 20 times. That doesn't mean there has to be 20 conflicts within the week, but you probably have 20 conflicts that you've had that you have not made repairs around because we [00:33:00] don't, we're terrible about this.
Penney: So really you have to have a reconnection and coming back together and the work of working through the repair. So if you have to schedule an appointment, absolutely do it.
Janae: Yeah, I just bring this up. Cause I know. In the online course demo that Tori and I we're working through. She talked about in her flooding plan of like changing the subject to something else until she feels more calm.
Janae: And then coming back to the initial triggering topic or event when. You know, after the fact yeah. And I could see where that is helpful. It just set off alarm bells in my head of like, no, don't do that because then you'll just move on. And you'll never
Penney: get back to it. There has to be an agreement of, um, can we change the subject and readdress this in 10 minutes or 15 minutes or, , I really have time to be able to come back to this in. You know, I don't know, an hour or tonight after I get off of work. I know that sounds more business-like and I [00:34:00] know that creates a lot of panic.
Penney: If there have been, if there's been a history of not making repair, but you're starting something new, you're learning something new. And coming back to it when you can have connection and calm is key. You have to be able to do that. If it's gotten to the point where there's dysregulation, instead of being able to stop it before it gets that
Janae: far. Yeah. How do you discern between this just needs a quick repair. And then moving forward versus the full breakdown of the full skill of repair recovery aftermath. of a
Penney: fight.
Penney: I think if we don't step into where we need to do full accountability and full conversation and feelings have been hurt, I think you can go quicker or you can have faster, even full repair where you. Kind of run through, you know, if, if I make one of the quick repair things of whoa, that sounded like criticism, I've already owned the defensive piece of it. And if my partner can, or I want to step into the, yeah, that felt really [00:35:00] uncomfortable, or I did feel really criticized.
Penney: Sorry about that. Um, I will do better at trying to not do criticism in the future. You can run through the steps pretty fast. Um, they don't have to be as big. So I would say. If it doesn't go really far and you've stopped it in its tracks before there are feelings, hurt and accountability that needs to happen.
Penney: I don't know that you need to go through full repair. Also full repair can be faster. Full repair can take a lot longer depending on the length or. Breadth of the argument and feelings behind it, or conflict and feelings behind it. Yeah.
Janae: So key points of the full repair is. Um,
Janae: Describing feelings.
Penney: Perspective understanding each other's perspective. Um, being able to.
Janae: And action steps to move forward,
Penney: like to do better. Yeah. You also have to do the, you know, just an understanding of, you know, what led us here. What was the map forward? Um, I can't remember there's five or six, six steps to it.
Penney: So it's something that I would [00:36:00] need to maybe come back in another conversation when I have it in front of me. Justice
Janae: wandering around. When you say it can also be a quick thing, like what are the key things that listeners should think.
Penney: I would say hitting feelings. Yeah. So the ones you said, hitting feelings, hearing each other's perspective, speaking each other's perspective. Um, full accountability. And an apology.
Penney: And then, uh, what are you going to do different? Those are your big key points.
Janae: So bill and both of you were going through all of those steps, just to clarify for listeners. Yes. Everyone goes through all the steps and after each of you. After each of the things that you're saying, like these are where my feelings are, this is what was leading up to this. the other person needs to reflect back
Penney: what they said.
Penney: Yeah. And have. Understanding. Yep. Reflect, validate. Yeah.
Janae: Yeah, I think it's important to. To [00:37:00] have that clarification where it's like, this can be a longer step when we're just getting used to the skills. But once you have the skills kind of down or in your head, it can become more snappy. Yeah. Quick and, you know, you just. You got into it and move
Penney: forward. And I also think that depends on where you're at in the conflict. The conflict is, or how much damage has been done. Yeah.
Janae: Um, okay.
Janae: So from here we just need to spin the wheel.
Penney: Eight. Um, what are some personal regulation things, that I do to be open to repair and to have repair come faster. Uh, one regulation thing. I do maybe less of a regulation and more, just a mindfulness of really just paying attention. If I'm starting to feel critical or feeling my voice raise or coming into a place of aggression or listening to the [00:38:00] tone of my voice, being mindful of how that is sounding or coming across and being able to pull that back in as quick as possible. So really being aware of myself. And then after a conflict. Being able to take time and space and not engage. Um, no text messages, no conversations, really given it the 20 minutes or overnight or longer if needed. In order to come back to the conversation. Nice.
Janae: I like that.
Janae: I like using that. There's mindfulness on both sides of that. Like, In order to be able to make a quick stop repair attempt. There has been mindfulness happening in reflection happening on both sides of being able to say, oh, I did not mean for that to happen that way, or I'm realizing that I'm getting flooded and now I'm going into a place of defensiveness or criticism. And yeah, those mindfulness piece steps [00:39:00] are really big to helping to meet them, not get to the point where you, you can have a huge fight and you have to do a big repair charm. All right. I'm spinning.
Janae: You got a seven.
Janae: So for an OD, we have what is physical connection you are okay with and use with your partner. So.
Janae: When my partner wants to make repairs or we're working through an aftermath of the fight. The physical connection that I'm usually okay with is. Still sitting somewhat far apart from each other, but I will drape my legs over his lap or my feet into his lap. And that feels like enough distance for me, but it still gives contact for him.
Janae: So that's what we do. Yeah. Um, and then other things. [00:40:00]
Janae: It's like. If we're, once we're done with our personal. Flooding care plan. When we come back together, sometimes we'll do some together ones where we'll go for a walk into. Usually at some point throughout the walk, you'll be like, okay. I feel like I can. We can hold hands or, you know, end with a hug or something like that.
Janae: So those are two that. I ended up using and have used in the past.
Janae: All right. Ready for rapid fire. Yep. Okay. What's one thing to practice in repairs that you're going to practice at repairs during the holiday season. Uh,
Penney: for me a big one is always paying attention to my tone of voice. oftentimes I might be completely thinking about something else and will respond to my partner, talk to my partner in a way that for him comes across as sounding harsher, feeling, uh, hurtful.
Penney: And so really paying attention to tone of voice. And, , if I notice it's usually I notice a reaction from [00:41:00] him and being able to say, well, that's, you know, this is where my brain was, or this is where I was at. And being able to reign it in really fast. So always for me paying attention when I'm. In my head and another task. To how I'm reacting to things around me and creating repairs around those
Janae: really fast.
Janae: Yeah. I relate to that a lot. I feel like that's a little bit of. An ADHD trait, like on the inattentive side that we will share where it's like someone comes up to you and maybe it's a small thing that they're saying, or a small request. This kind of relates to the mental load that we were talking about last week, too. But it can feel like. The big disruption when you're focused on something else, or you have seven other tabs open in your brain.
Janae: And then it's like, ah, alarm goes off and you're like, I cannot handle this right now. And then it does come off as a criticism. You're like, wow, that was an overreaction. From one standpoint, but also it makes sense why you had that
Penney: reaction. And sometimes roommates don't even necessarily write a request.
Penney: It can just be [00:42:00] just an interruption and I, yes. And so then, because of where my head is, The voice that comes out is not like a conversational tone. It's more of a, uh, quick tone, I guess.
Janae: Um, Because you're in task management mode.
Penney: Yeah. And so that's how it's going to sound. On that kind of master commander. Um, in charge. Kind of tone and, um, that doesn't feel really kind for my partner.
Janae: Yeah, I've noticed I do that with my partner.
Janae: I do that at work, you know, both of us have done it to each other and yeah. So. It's interesting that that's a common thing. So,
Penney: so for me, always. paying attention to that. And then I think the other side of that is paying attention to it. And then when I do that, making sure, and this is something I've been. I'm trying to be more mindful about within the last year is. Instead of justifying or defending of like, you know, my brain is just somewhere else of. Being able to say. Give some empathy of I [00:43:00] can you. You know, from the look on your face or from your reaction, I'm guessing that sounded really harsh.
Penney: And, sorry. I really apologize that that's how you felt. I'm, I'm focused on you now and I'm able to hear what you're saying. And do it in a kind way. So being able to have some kindness and empathy towards my partner and his perspective. Around
Janae: that. Yeah, it's also, it's a perfect. situation for asking for a redo, like, you know, I'm sorry, can I get a redo on that? When I can have my brain. Close all the other tabs and give you attention.
Janae: Yeah.
Penney: And, or just being able to have the tone of voice that I would like to have with someone that I care about.
Janae: Sure. Cool. All right. For me. One thing to practice in repairs, going into the holiday season. I think. Is going to be. The.
Janae: Communication piece for me, I think around. Sharing some of what's going on letting my [00:44:00] partner into my inner world more around, you know, All the tabs that are open, I guess if we're running with that theme. So, in order to create more clarity around like what's happening and. I liked that you said in the quick repair attempt, like being able to share perspective of what led up to this.
Janae: I think that's a piece that often gets missed when I'm doing that is like, And then I there's a part of me that feels unheard because it didn't get clarified of why I had that reaction and it kind of niggles in the back of my brain for awhile. And so being able to clarify that saying, here's, what's going on in the background. I'm sorry that that's why this came out of, and I will do better in the future not to do it. I do that. Um,
Janae: Because I think that that can also be triggering for some people of like, well, that's just an excuse.
Janae: Like it needs to be followed up with an accountability, but you can say like, this is why this is going on, or here's what's [00:45:00] happening in my inner world. That's leading to my feelings around this. And so, yeah, I think having more clarity around that can. Will be helpful for me and my partner going through the holidays.
Janae: Yeah. So. Okay, well, thank you for listening and we hope you have a wonderful holiday. And if slash when things pop up in your relationship, With all of the holiday stress feel free to listen to. Listen to this again. And use some of these techniques. Around making repairs. And as Penney said, make sure you come back and make the repair. Yeah, very, very important.
Janae: Like we said, at the top of the episode, , the research shows that this is a key point in having healthy, long lasting relationships, which we all want to. So. Putting in the effort, even though it takes a lot of vulnerability to go back to those moments. I think the inclination of just moving on and trying to forget that it happened is such a protective thing, but we. It's something that we can. We [00:46:00] can and should. Try our best to. To start working around.
Penney: Absolutely. So good luck.
Penney: We're all, we're all in it together. Right? I rooting for you and each other. We're all. We're all trying to do this. Yeah.
Janae: All right. Okay. We'll catch you in our your next one. Yep. Bye bye.
