Ep. 10 Do you have a Third Place? And why you should be thinking about them.
Penney and I talk about third places in this episode. What are they, how do they impact us, and what to do to get back to them... are all answered and more in our 10th (!!) episode.
We hope you enjoy it and share this episode with a friend who you want to join you in third-place adventures.
Links :
Read more about relationship myths here Penney has 6 blog posts available on different relationship myths so far for you to enjoy.
Couples Retreat 2023 Creating Safety and Emotional Connection July 21-23, 2023 Check that out here
Ep. 10 Third Place Therory
Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a gen X-er and a millennial and a mother and daughter. Join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your host, you need in many. Welcome.
All right. We're going to be talking about. A term today, a specific term called. Third place. Theory or third places in general. And this was something that I came across, randomly walls, scrolling on social media and keeps my interest. it applies to. Quite a few of the community building Topics that we've talked about. Around creating more community and fighting against loneliness and
Penney: isolation. Yeah, absolutely. That's a kind of an antidote. for that. Interestingly enough, something that when it was first reading, I think Oldenburg, he's the one that coined the [00:01:00] theory. Talked about it originally in 1987. and then some say 1997. So somewhere within that 10 year time period, the Oldenburg was talking about that.
That he really focused on third space being a term for pubs bars grills. Uh, you look at. Other more urban areas and maybe areas outside of here. that have restaurants and spaces where you go out and eat and, and create more of a community.
Janae: so maybe we can. Get more of a concrete term for what a third spaces. So it's basically anything outside of your home or your work environment that you can go and interact
Penney: with people. Yeah, create a space where you can have social interaction. Doesn't have to, it also talks about the difference between restorative third spaces and urban third spaces. The urban third spaces can be more of [00:02:00] that.
I don't know, going to a puzzle bar or someplace to play games or someplace to do trivia. We're just sitting at a table and having social interaction with the people around you. Versus a park or an outdoor nature space that can be more restorative. That's there. Those are different, but have similar effects psychologically.
So anywhere. Outside of your home in your work environment. And they can be unpaid or paid spaces. We can go into it even a little bit about the disappearance of free spaces. Sure. For people to, just exist in without needing to spend money in. And how that has kind of gone away over time. and how that's affected us.
Janae: So. Yeah, just to solidify the term on the term. Our first space is home. Our second space is where we work and a third space is somewhere we can gather and socialize with
Penney: people.
[00:03:00] Interesting also change. I would read a comment earlier as I have been doing some research around third spaces that really even our first and second spaces. for a lot of people have become one in the same that your home under work. are the same space.
Janae: Oh, yeah, because of telecommuting and.
COVID yeah. More remote working. That is interesting. I think that people still try to, to create those spaces within their homes. I think there was a lot of people doing renovations and things so that there was a separate either a room if they had a room available or a separate corner of their house or living room.
Because I think psychologically, we need that separation. So,
Penney: so just adds to the third space theory, right there really need a third space to be able to socialize also, meaning if your third space is in your backyard, where you have people over. That you can still create space within the same space. It doesn't have to be completely separate. So kind of an [00:04:00] interesting theory with that.
Janae: Yeah. I think one of the benefits of it being some thing outside of your regular living area is. If you're inviting people over, you're inviting the seen group of people. Whereas when you're going out, you are getting exposed to. Different people every single
Penney: time. Yeah, which can be good or bad. There isn't a lot of research to say you need new people versus the same people. but just people just in the community,
Janae: I would be curious to know whether.
Being exposed to a more diverse set of people helps with. Creating less of a polarization of. Opinions and polarization within communities and things like that.
Penney: Maybe it was interesting in some of the research that I did that one of the benefits of third space. Is that there is. Some of that social political piece to that, that people joining together [00:05:00] with shared ideas that a lot of political movements and change throughout the generations.
Have been because of people gathering in a. A bar or a pub or an outdoor space or a space where like-minded people gathered to create movements of change. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Janae: Yeah, I agree. Being able to come together with people who have common ideas. And I also think that being able to come together and hear a more diverse set of ideas can help us.
Understand that. At the end of the day. We're all human. And it's okay to disagree on things and it's okay to have differing opinions on things. Yeah.
Penney: So I think just recognizing. That there's a variety of ways that third spaces can look that they don't have to look all one way. But it's more about creating the space and having.
That then it is about the, what happens there. Yeah. Interesting. I wrote some research where there they're doing some push [00:06:00] towards. how we handle the elderly around third spaces that instead of putting them in communities where we take them out of spaces to socialize that building a common area or having, homes or places for the other tooth to live that have natural third spaces.
this is much healthier for them, of course, that they can gather and be outdoor, be with people instead of isolating that really we do them a disservice. We do all of ourselves, a disservice when we take the people that have the knowledge and the years, the generation, and put them away somewhere, instead of being able to have them part of the community.
Janae: Yeah, I know I was doing some reading on the benefits of having intergenerational interactions in relationships. It's good for your. You're way younger and you know, all your in between ages and your elderly to all be interacting with each other and everyone benefits from those interactions on all levels. And it is interesting how.
We've [00:07:00] really. Isolated and segmented everyone within society down into. There are separate groups. Yeah. And it's, it's a lot less of a community and you know, you have people with kids. They're like, oh, we don't like to go to these things because our kids are going in. You interrupt things or be annoying or.
So then they try and only hang out with people who have kids and.
Yeah, I think that it's interesting that. That mentality has grown and it's like, If you, if you're around people who don't have kids, it's not like they can't. Grow to understand how to interact with them. And.
Penney: Can I have a personal story with that three years ago, it's probably been three years ago. Now we do a new years.
We do a big new year's Eve party as a family. And we had gone to new year's breakfast, which we do at our. Our favorite restaurant and. One of the, the families. Hadn't a newer baby. I think he was born a year and a half. And he started to cry and the parents panicked and took him out and then left.
[00:08:00] And the table next to us was a big gathering of, they were probably a re. Tired group of people, right? Probably I don't know, late sixties, seventies, eighties. Maybe even some nineties people in walkers and in older, and when they left, they left because they were worried about distracting this table of people, probably 15, 20 people that were next to us.
And this backspace that we were in. And the other people at the table turned and said, where did the baby go? And we said, well, they felt uncomfortable because of him being loud. So they left in. At least 10 of them expressed sadness around them taking the baby and for them not feeling comfortable and being able to be at a space because they had had kids.
Or experienced kids and understand what that's like to be parents and wishing to provide that support and just have that intergenerational interaction for themselves that it's okay to exist in a space with a baby.
And that they make noise and that's okay. Yeah. And. [00:09:00] Most of your different generations are going to have either a significant amount of experience dealing with that themselves or, you know, secondhand experiences with dealing with that. Yeah. So. I think that there's a fine line between trying to be polite in those kinds of situations in being cured, courteous, but also allowing yourself to just exist and live within a community of people. I think we are so.
Janae: Freaked out of disturbing other people that. You don't stay open to having a conversation of I'm sorry, my baby is being loud. And then the other table could have then said it's not a big deal. We've all been there. But instead it's like this panic comes up and you feel like you have to leave in. It is a situation that is sad and.
It just continues to make more isolation within. Yes. And families in the community. Yeah. So our next question is, what has conditioned us to not want to be in third spaces? So, this is a very vulnerable [00:10:00] question for me because I like to research and have the answers before we ask the question and we're not on this one. We're going to have just more of an intergenerational conversation around third spaces.
Penney: So when Janae brought up this idea of doing a third space, Episode. I was a little like what and why? And it's taken me some time to warm up to the idea. Because I did grow up, gen X-er and we did have third spaces. and I was a country dweller, not urban dweller. So I had different exposure to third spaces urban wise when I would.
Visit family, but we did gather, we gathered. And I lived, my parents moved every year, so I've lived many different spaces and had exposure to many different of those third spaces. But we would gather at a specific person's house and play night games. Or we had a gathering place as a group of friends. I was in drama in high school and we gathered at the auditorium and spent a lot of time there, not just doing productions, but doing other [00:11:00] things.
So the things that I was involved in, we definitely had third spaces that we gathered. We didn't have cell phones. We wandered. And we were very free children to kind of get up in the morning and go, and then come back at the end of the day. And a majority of our time was spent in third spaces with different people. And I can think of multiple different communities. I was a part of in those third spaces and that was.
That was childhood and adolescence. Definitely. How did that change as you became an adult? Because I think that we have a couple, we have a question about this later on in the podcast, but I do think that it is a lot easier to access those third spaces when you are. in school still, but once you are no longer in school and you're an adult.
Janae: Even after college because there's quite a few third spaces within a college environment. If you go onto a campus. but if you don't end up with that experience or after you graduate from college, What was [00:12:00] your experience with that? You're
Penney: not thinking about that in my twenties. we had specific friends that we would get together and gather. We even, received permission to use a church in our neighborhood that we gathered a playgroup that we would bring all of the kids. So mothers with kids stay at home moms because I was a stay-at-home mom at that time.
That with little children that weren't in school or kindergarteners that came home from school early. That we gathered at least weekly and sometimes a couple of times a week that we would spend time together letting the kids play. And we would walk together and we would do craft projects and we did that for years. So we created those spaces.
I also had a friend. And there's always that person in the community that's like come to my house, do things. that that was a space. I also took a sewing class. I did. Like a wreath making class and met people and did that at the senior center. so definitely there were spaces created in my twenties for that. I think that changed.
Maybe in my thirties. I'm gonna [00:13:00] say definitely I was doing college in my twenties too. And we had study groups and would create spaces around that, off of campus because I didn't go to a. traditional campus for school. But. I feel like that changed when there was a lot more focus around. And actually, as I'm thinking about this, that group of people that I spent time with, we weren't running our kids to gymnastics and running our kids to dance and running our kids to.
Softball and baseball and T-ball, and that shifted. So in there where. I mean, I specifically remember you starting a gymnastics class and dance class, both you and your sister doing a dance class, Christopher doing soccer. And that's when that changed, when it became more about like, what activities are your kids in and filling kids time with things.
That we did gymnastics dance, soccer, horses, softball. All of those things. And that became much more of the focus then spending time in this space. That's to me where I can feel a shift in my own [00:14:00] life, around those spaces. Hmm, that's
Janae: interesting of. Of like shifting from unstructured or semi-structured plates to very structured, specific activities.
Yeah. And then, so. And I guess not even
Penney: 20 is right. If I'm thinking there's probably like. Well, I mean, I had kids when I was 17, so. Um, Young for me, where with other moms, maybe different ages with that. But changing right around. Probably 2000 right around there, right in that timeframe. That's really, when things shifted.
When did you lose? A third space. That wasn't kid involved.
Well, I think that's also a tricky question for me because I was a young mom and I didn't have support to really go spend time in third spaces without kids. That wasn't something that was accessible for me. So any space that I went to had to be kid friendly. In order for me to, to do what I had to do with being a mom.
Janae: I remember you being [00:15:00] on like, uh, adult basketball team. I was on an adult basketball team. I played adult volleyball and I played adult softball. But you guys would come with. Yeah, but it wasn't like taking us to an activity. No, no. I still did my own. When I say kids not involved. I'm more mean like it wasn't centered around.
Kids. Sure. Are your children. And the moms there were there for their own activity. It wasn't centered around their kids or parents. I shouldn't say moms, but yeah. Yeah. After leaving the space where we did the playgroup and, went through a divorce, moved out. To a different community. One that I had grown up in, it was an amazing community for third spaces. They would do.
Penney: Big barbecues a night of the week. I don't even remember if it was a plan night of the week and people would just show up and then we would have a giant baseball. Softball game between any adults that wanted to play in the kids, wandered and played on the playground and, and people random will Libra bring food. It just felt so unplanned.
And there was a lot of that. I know that community still [00:16:00] does things like that. That it's a very community friendly place. And that's also why I played volleyball and basketball and softball. And did those until we moved. Those were, those were good activities for me. I don't remember though in doing that, I didn't socialize a lot with the people.
because I think I was different. They would go out and do things and I had kids. So I was in a different space with that, but, but I did enjoy playing. I didn't enjoy that time.
Janae: I want to talk about how the internet may be shifted third spaces. Oh yeah. because that would be around the same time. The internet really started to become a thing. Well, you really didn't have like my space yet, but definitely chat rooms. I remember one of my school assignments around that same time was to visit a chat room.
Penney: And that would have been right at that same time. So, yeah, I did do, I did read some research around third spaces shifting to more of an online forum. And gaming and Facebook MySpace. Like the AOL, [00:17:00] the chat rooms. Uh, that type of thing. And that, that has changed that in society. And so maybe that was the big shift.
Janae: I think when we talk about. What ways have we been conditioned to not want a third space? I feel like. The conditioning. Comes a little bit from the internet taking that space. And also the switch of having. Dual income households. So both of your. Primary caregivers are working. All time. And the push. I think for. Either. More money or more stability. I'm not entirely sure economically what caused that change, but I do feel like there has been a push of.
More.
Focus is on paid structured activities for your kids, which then you as a parent, need to make more money to be able to pay for those structured activities for your kids. almost [00:18:00] centered around. A competition of whose kid is going to get into the best college. And scholarships and all of these things like that took more of the, when I reflect on what my experience was like, That. It felt like a lot of pressure was put on doing well. In those third spaces. Four.
Furthering your success. So doing well so that you can either feel successful in what you're doing or. Get college. Scholarships or, you know, study groups in, hanging out with friends became like,
Centered around doing. Much wor work as you could for schools. So that again, it's like college focused. So, yeah, I would argue in, you said, in those third spaces, I don't feel like those were third spaces. I feel like my experience. I was drama. And what that was like for me was very different than what that was like for you.
Penney: and I could be wrong, but I mean, we hung out in the [00:19:00] auditorium. And we would strike, set and be there until two, three in the morning. And we would spend, breaks there and Saturdays there. And it was very much a community. it wasn't, we go do rehearsals and leave and there was no competition.
Around that it was very much a community.
Janae: There were definitely gets that, did that in my drama groups. but I had a curfew.
Penney: So did I, I had a curfew too. And
that was on striking the set exception nights. I definitely had a curfew also. but. Yeah. I don't know it, I guess that's interesting. I guess, as a parent, I didn't feel like going to activities. That was a third space for me. I didn't talk with other parents. And if you did, it was about success of your child.
I think that became a shift in a focused. I mean, yeah, no. I can see that. It's interesting. So some background, when we chose to do this question about how would we been conditioned? Not to do third spaces and have this be a generational conversation. Janae said, well, that will be [00:20:00] interesting because it was your generation that changed it. And.
So I think it's an interesting thought about. what created that for my generation and doing that for our children and, and really making that
Janae: shift. Yeah, we're kind of seeing now, Shifts in the opposite direction. Which is great. More things popping up. Where it's in-person and. we were just reading an article recently about the mall.
Uh, hosting more in person like activity-based things instead of just shopping.
Penney: Yeah. I think changes in economy in space, right? You don't want to add more space. Some people have far less economical means to buy things. So. And if you do, you buy it online. So there's a lot of stores going out of business and malls are becoming spaces for Phil to say pickleball core words.
Bowling. Games games, game store. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. Bless our K didn't talk. Did you talk about arcades? I felt like it was more. [00:21:00] You know, interactive. For some reason, I thought it was arcade one. Anyway, more activity-based things. bullying pickleball. That type of thing. So definitely more interactive games.
I don't know, you can see him putting in a mini golf course or something. So a place where people can gather and have physical interactive activities and experiences instead of buying things. So bringing those third spaces back, I definitely applaud. the generation for doing that. I think it's amazing. And maybe my generation has realized our mistakes and we're trying to push towards change in that direction, but
Janae: we still have.
I've heard the whole internet thing, but I feel like we were all riding the wave of how, and we will continue to ride the wave. Right, right. How first wave internet, and then now social media stage internet is how it's all affecting. It's affecting all of us. So I think that your. Third spaces, especially where you were talking about places for gathering of like.
Political or social change groups. A lot of those shifted to the [00:22:00] online. And you know, when you were talking about your sewing class or your wreath making class, when I want to do learn how to do something like that, I go online and I look up how to do it myself. And.
I think that if I was given the opportunity or I knew places that did classes like that in my area, I would 100% be hopping on board with that. You were a lot of fun. Yeah. And I know that like at the library there is. Chess club night and there's a whole knitting and crafting night. That I would love to go do, but it's at a time that I can't make it.
But. So I know those spaces are popping up more. But my immediate reaction to. I need to learn a skill. Is to go onto YouTube and watch a tutorial on it. Yeah.
So I think that's interesting how I wouldn't say that it was necessarily your generation that just decided to say, screw it. We're not doing it, but it was. The internet just changed how we interact with each other on such a big level and in some ways really helpful. Absolutely. Right. Like, if you [00:23:00] lived in a more rural community or a small town and you felt different or alienated, you could go online and find people who are very similar to you or had similar interests.
And it allows you to kind of have a more broader open perspective of ideas and things. And that's helpful. But on the flip side, I think. This is always a conversation around the internet, right? It's like the double edge sword of pros and cons with it. causing more isolation or feeling like.
No one around you knows you or understands what you're going through or has a similar experience to you. And so you seek that from people from other places online. And instead, like we were talking at the beginning. There might be people of different generations or people within your community that are more similar to you than you think. And you wouldn't know that unless you.
Struck up our conversation and tried to create a relationship with them. And even if you have to find that balance, that you have your online space, where you feel more [00:24:00] understood, seen, and heard in a way that feels familiar, that doesn't mean you don't also need that. Human interaction, human space, and being able to share other story does the synergy that comes from, from being with other people and their energy and their space and their knowledge is important. Even if it isn't exactly like ours. That's okay.
Yeah. An example. That comes up for me. As a more introverted person who I don't always seek to be around big groups of people, but I really like. As a small example. Going to the movies or going to live performances of theater. Because you do get that synergy. Yeah.
Penney: Performance so much better than a movie.
Yeah.
Janae: So if I go to see if I'm what. I want to watch a movie. I'd rather go see it in a theater where you have more people and you have that. Common. I don't know, it's just like emotion. Ride
Penney: the wave.
Janae: Sure you hear their reactions to [00:25:00] it. And you know, you all guessed at the same moments. And so that's fun. And then. You know, your upper level from that is yeah. Seeing a live performance on stage. Yes. So an example of that, Third space feeling of. Interacting with other people. And I also think it's always funny going to some of those live performances and looking around.
And it's like such a diverse group of people and even the people on stage. at the, our local place at the palace, Cedar in Pocatello. I was surprised by what a wide range of ages. Sure. Like. I aspire to be one of the retired people that go to the back and does theater. I think that'd be so fun.
but yeah, you have kids and then people all the way up into their retirement age is. And I think that that's awesome to see. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. so our third question is what are the benefits of having a third space?
Penney: So the [00:26:00] benefits of having this third space, I think we've touched on some of those as far as the being able to get outside of ourselves.
being able to knowledge and learning from other generations, some of the other benefits are that they really have shown how that reduces mental fatigue. Or burnout that time out. With people, whether that's in an urban space or whether that's in more of a restorative space. At a park or, or someplace out door in that way. Lowers anxiety, stress, and depression.
So we've done some episodes on burnout, and this is one of the answers for that spending time in third space helps us mentally, recover. So the bouncing back and forth work to homework, to homework, to home recipe for mental fatigue and burnout, stress, anxiety, depression. And taking time in that routine, out in a third space, combats
Janae: that, and that's exactly what I was that triggered a thought in my brain of it makes so much sense because a part of the burnout that I've experienced.
Is that constant [00:27:00] cycling loop of wake up, go to work, come home, go to bed, wake up, go to work. And it's like such a dead end. Being cycle. Yeah. Yeah, anywhere you can break that up and. Not to get in the cycle. I, that makes perfect sense to me. And I'm
Penney: not wash, wash, rinse, repeat. Yeah. Over, over, over, over. Yeah, absolutely.
It's interesting. I was just thinking, I don't know if you've seen the Truman show. with, Jim Carrey in it, he is on a show he's on a reality show, but he doesn't know he's on a reality show. And he watched him create the same routine every day. He's the only one that doesn't know he's on a reality show. Everybody else are actors. And when he realizes that he's in this routine, because he's been placed in this fake world to be in a routine.
You want him so bad to break out of it? You want him to get in the boat and sail off of the set or to finally have some freedom around that? And there's times when I feel like that, when you watch him, you know, wake up, do the same thing, brush his teeth, to do the same thing and [00:28:00] go to work, do the same thing, talk to the same people. And I think we can definitely get in that feeling And maybe cheering for ourselves to be able to break out of that as much as we did for him. That, you know, just break free, create a new space, do something different, have some variety and BRCA with that mental fatigue that really comes from that sameness and that routine that is soul sucking.
Janae: I think when we have conversations around burnout.
The, some of the people that I've talked to their answer is like, I just need to quit my job. I need to move. I need to get out of here. Like really big, drastic changes, which has kind of. What you were talking about with him, just getting on the low end, leaving as the solution. And I think it's helpful to know that there are smaller solutions. There are things that you can do.
That are smaller in their action, but big in their impact. So creating a third space, a space that you don't have to be in the same routine as a way to do that. Yeah. To break free of the routine. And I mean, break free. Like when we've [00:29:00] met break free of the routine that he goes from day to day today, today, today.
So let's talk about some tips for being able to discover your third space. first one, I would say you got to identify your community, figure out. What could possibly be a third space? What are some third spaces you've discovered or ways you figured that out? I recently. Started thinking about the hobbies that I want to cultivate and trying to find.
Spaces that help with that. So there are sewing classes. At some of the shops in town that sell sewing machines, which I didn't realize they had. so I was looking into that and then. Remembering back to activities that I liked to do when I was younger and trying to find spaces that do that as well. So like dancing.
Type spaces and things like that. And then I also think just. Inviting friends. Out and. Seeing where they want to go or trying to pick. [00:30:00] A local spa and just have that become like your place. My husband and I have somewhat done that with, A brewery here in town. And it's nice that if we're going to hang out with that group of friends, we know where we're all meeting. And so it's kind of become.
That place. And we know the. our keepers names and we know where we're going to sit and it's, so it's really become like that familiar place. Yeah, that makes sense. I know for me finding a third space, can. Really. It's more difficult. more around time constraints then finding places. But I know for me in the past, the gym has definitely been a third space for me.
creating a community around being CrossFit for years. And.
even my neighborhood, although that's first base, unless you go to somebody else's space to do that, but parks or anywhere around. I also just want to really admire those in the community that have fought through COVID and fought [00:31:00] through this transition to more online third spaces that they're still holding.
Uh, things of the library, things at the sewing and building more pubs and creating more community spaces as the society is realizing how important that is. They're really a lot of those communities held on. When people didn't attend. And creating community spaces. Part of Hilltop is something that we do.
And when people don't attend, that can be really difficult, to think is this important? We believe in it. We know it's important. Do other people see the value of that? So definitely creating the space as a community, for other business, we have done that in. And talking about creating more of a wellness space for other people.
I think that was a big part of it. For me, I think is spaces that you can be in that don't cost any money. No. And those are dwindling. Yeah. And. Spaces where you can just go and there's no expectation [00:32:00] on what you have to do or yeah. What. Cost is going to be. I was reading. A post from a. It was like a text thread and someone had messaged and said, you know, it's sad that teens, these days are so wrapped in their phone.
And someone. I think they were an adult, because they were talking from an adult perspective, but they really went through and commented back and said, listen, yes, there has been a turning towards online communities, but a big reason why is because teenagers. Have had free spaces slowly taken away from them.
And it started with millennials and it's really bad for gen Z. And it's like when they are in free public spaces. they get, chastised for loitering or in trouble for being like ruckus. and then. If you live in a more rural place in your parents, don't let you walk or ride a skateboard or scooter around. You have to have a driver's [00:33:00] license to get anywhere.
So that's significantly dwindles when you can go out and meet up with people. So then you're confined to your home. And it was interesting. She also talked about the switch from parent mentality. So when you tell you stories of your growing up yeah. You roamed everywhere. You cross state lines without your parents knowing? Yes, we do get in trouble for that though.
Um, that was on the horses. You can't cross state lines with horses without a brand inspection. However we did, and it was a fun day. Yeah. And so the, the, um, The fear around crime and kidnapping. And I think that that is. Probably helpful to have a healthy amount of fear or a healthy amount of like, we should probably know where our kids are relatively.
but there's been a major cracking down of that. And this woman was talking about in her posts of, like it was it's so different kids aren't allowed to just roam anymore. And so that also makes it hard [00:34:00] to go out and do things, especially now that both parents are in the workplace. If you don't have someone at home who can drive you and if no one's available for you to talk to you and ask permission to go somewhere, you can go anywhere. No.
And I thought that was really interesting point of. Maybe it's not that.
Internet spaces are taking over. More as internet spaces are popping up in replacement of those in real life spaces, because it's become really hard to go and seek them out. And the convenience factor of it. Do you think there's more education from parents around the risk of that? And so I would encourage parents and teenagers to look for those free spaces. We do have several spaces here with recognition, from those spaces that get funding for transportation.
And we do have a lot of kids that ride their bikes and long board and, and have more of that ability to get around before they're getting their driver's license, which in the state of Idaho you can do at 15. So we have a lower driver's license age that makes that a little bit easier. But, [00:35:00] yeah, there's definitely a need for that for, for having more spaces in the community. It's funny because I'm thinking about all those really, almost like a. Those eighties movies where the, you know, it's those darn kids hanging out around the mall and their skateboards. And, and definitely there was some pushback against that. And then skate parks became really popular and then they became a place where you didn't let your kids go. because there was drugs and other things happening. So I do think around safety, their husbands and restricting.
Of those safe spaces. that I was able to roam when I was younger.
It's just funny to see. The differences in, like you had your latch key kid generation, and now it's just, it's switched so much. But yeah, I think identifying who's your people, who's in your community. What things do you have available? I didn't know about the sewing group until I Googled it. And, I also have been. Uh, part of, I haven't really been the one cultivating it, but a friend of mine is really [00:36:00] started. Making a whole lot of new friends and then inviting me to join them. And so I've been meeting quite a few newer people than what I'm used to.
And that's been interesting and she's used Bumble friends, which I did not know is a thing. So Bumble friends to find. People to go hang out with and do things with. So. Remembering that you can make new friends that have similar interests to yours. You don't have to have one friend or two friends that do every single thing with you.
So she has someone that she goes to the gym with and someone that she goes and does, you know, different activities with, depending on their schedule and their interests. So widening maybe the group of people that you're hanging out with. Yeah. And I know several people that have been starting groups that are free groups, recognizing that need for community and building that. So I would say big summary on.
Find what your interests are. And then go find a community. There are people out there, there are communities out [00:37:00] there. Challenge yourself to cultivate that challenge yourself, to take that step. I know it's not easy, but do it because there are opportunities. If you seek them out. You're not the only one that's recognizing the need for them. No, definitely not. I think that there is now being a swing towards.
Okay. These were taken away. Or we weren't. Really investing in them. And now there's been a swing back towards that community. So. If you can't find anything, the next thing is to create it yourself. Yeah. Create your own space, create your own gardening space or create your own community, create your own group, which is something that we've been trying to do. And as we said, there's others that are doing the same thing that we try and join with and cultivate.
kind of intergroup relations. in creating free spaces to be able to do things. That was a big push that we have. Community events. And we decided to make them free slash donation-based because everything else has a pay [00:38:00] law. Everything else you have to pay to get into, like all of these classes and things. If you don't have the funds and an extra income to go towards that.
Then you're really limited on what you can do. And so, yeah, we're making those donation based or free to just come to and pay what you can if you can or pay nothing. If you can't. Because again, that's another barrier for adolescents. And it's fun to be able to do that in a world of inflation and, difficult financial times. Yeah. So third tips set aside time to spend in a third space.
I struggle with this one. As, My third space, I guess right now would be doing yoga a couple of times a week. Right? however it's paid for, but it's also in my office, so it's not really getting into another space other than it's another room. So we can count that. And I really love gardening at my house.
And, and having the time to do that really helps to set and. kind of reground me, but definitely for me, it would be a challenge to try and set aside time for that. [00:39:00] Where, where does that fit into this schedule? Where is that important and how can I make that a priority? Yeah, I have the similar thing of being invited to things and I'm like, I can't like I have.
Such a limited amount of time between work and going to school. Full-time and it's just. It's hard. So I think just remembering that if we really want to combat burnout and lower our anxiety, stress, and depression. This is something that we have to prioritize. It's something we have to do to be able to take care of ourselves.
Yeah. I think it might be interesting to look at your schedule and say, realistically, Starting out with what's one hour that I can give. And just starting there. It doesn't ever have to grow from there either, but just starting with getting that routine in of either going and finding somewhere new during that hour, every time or finding something.
Within your community or creating something within your community that you can dedicate an hour or two? Yeah. Absolutely. [00:40:00] All right, we're going to take a break to talk about a sponsor for our episode. So this episode is sponsored by Hilltop wellness heel top on this is a retreat and event company based in south Eastern Idaho.
They provide online courses weekend retreats in day events. For personal development and couples therapy, Hilltop wellness invites you to join them on a healing nature retreat this summer. And you can get more information about that@wwwdothilltopwellness.net. The link for that will be in the show notes.
And we're coming into summer. So. Look out for our two couples are treats in July. And our women's retreat in August.
All right. What do we have next on the docket? It takes two to tango. as we're thinking about third space, if you are in a in a relationship. I actually did an entire blog on the idea that you should want to do everything with your partner and not anything separate. that that's actually a misnomer space away from our [00:41:00] partners is healthy. Finding a community third space that we can spend our own time in. You can do, you can have a third space with your partner.
I also would challenge you to have a third space minus your partner. There's some benefits of that as far as, and I would challenge you to go find the blog post and read it. It's how you can find that on Hilltop on this.dot net also. But it keeps us more interesting to our partner for cultivating our own.
Interests and we're learning about things. They don't know. They find us more interesting and more attractive when we do that. Because we're not the same person that they see every day. We also have a better relationship when we do things besides sitting on the couch, watching TV. So keeping cultivating ourself and building ourself also helps to build our relationship.
Yeah, and I think it builds confidence in yourself of doing things on your own and that self-confidence, you can take back into your relationship and have more [00:42:00] confidence in. Your position in your relationship and maybe more confidence in the intimacy within your relationship. So that's an interesting thing. And like penny said, you're welcome to go check out that blog for the full thing she's actually been going through. And.
Taking a couples myth. And breaking it down and in saying why it's a myth, does relationship myths. So. Go check that out. And remember to find third places that. You don't have to do with your partner. I also think that that helps with scheduling because me and my partner schedules are almost exact opposites of each other. So if I had to wait for him every time,
I wanted to go. hang out in a third space, it would be really tough to be able to do that. Another piece of that is having a community that helps too. Less than that anxiety, stress and help us mentally balance also creates another space for people [00:43:00] to provide for us emotionally, instead of putting all of that emotional pressure on our partner.
It is so much pressure and responsibility to be. Solely responsible for somebody emotionally. We really need to branch out and have other people. In a community to be able to help with that. Yes. So terms are relationships. Yeah, it's so much pressure. if you have to be your partner's one and only person for everything, that's so much pressure and also really limits you on the advice, the information to help that you can get from other people.
Yeah. Okay. Let's spin the wheel.
I got an odd. So what barriers come up for not seeking third spaces for me, it's time constraints and I really have focused. My, I don't know, probably 20 years in this gap of my life. Around being able to provide for myself financially for the future. And where the [00:44:00] kids are grown and that's kind of, that's my focus.
That it's hard for me to remember that I have to take time for myself. And not just always thinking what do I have to do in order to be prepared for what do I have to do now so that I can be prepared and not burn out before then? So definitely for me, it's the. It's the blocking out time. How do you handle, I know a lot of your financial motivation and work motivation is towards.
Retirement and being debt free. That, how do you balance that with. with I'm wanting to enjoy life. At the age you're at right now.
Y. I am generally kind of a Pollyanna happy person. So there's few days and moments in life that I don't enjoy myself. I love what I do. I love the people that I spend time with. I love what I have chosen to fill my wife and my days with. So for me, there's a lot of enjoyment in that, that it's not a drudgery career that I have.
It isn't doing. Fix up projects in my house that I [00:45:00] spent a weekend weekends doing and, or build a new flower beds or the things that I have chosen to do with my life or things. I love. So for me, I think it's enjoying every moment while preparing for a time. When really the ultimate goal is to travel and not be tied down with other things. So, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I really honestly enjoy my life every minute.
Yeah, I just, when I think about that, I've heard people say like, you know, work as hard as you can save as hard as you can, that you can get to that retirement age and just, you know, then you can go do your traveling. And I'm always like, I want to do that now. Like yeah. And I do that. I don't want to be stuck.
Pushing and hustling for 50, 60 years of my life. To then switch. Sure. And, and then have the mindset of, oh, now I can take time for myself. And I don't do that. I take regular trips and vacations and time off and plan things on the weekends. So I [00:46:00] do that. I'm not completely focused, but I do put a lot of hours in.
Yeah. All right. Spin now.
I can't see the thing. What did I get? You had an odd, okay. What barriers come up for me and not seeking third places. I guess, similarly, I think I've, I've really dug into creating my own third spaces because I'm always wanting to reinvent the wheel.
I'm like, why go join someone else's thing where they have control when I can do it myself. So I think that's something like for a lot of people, their third space is coming to my yoga classes, which I really love cultivating and hosting and creating that safe space for people. And then I do extra bonus things on the weekend of my, fat yoga friends, where people of different body types can come and do yoga. And then they have the [00:47:00] burnout club and then we have the Hilltop stuff where we're doing.
A full moon and new moon things and, different community events there. So a lot of it is. I think a barrier is I'm. Creating more and, but, but at the same time, I'm also participating in them when I'm doing them. I, I wouldn't count yoga. Teaching yoga is. As that for me, because that is very much so.
A job when I teach yoga versus what I feel when I take a yoga class is very different. But I think that's probably the main barrier. Something that I have. Really enjoyed is finding, people through yoga. Like I have. A group of friends now through yoga that I've joined their body kind community in Idaho falls and they do monthly events that are really cool that I've joined in on.
And just nice that it's like it's once a month, sometimes they're online. Sometimes they're in person and it's pretty flexible. They vote. [00:48:00] There's a voting system. On what days you can do it. So then I help. Make the decision of what day works for me, which is really helpful. And then the book club is the same way.
that one is actually virtual because we have people who aren't in town. but it feels kind of. Like a third space, we would all get on a zoom call. We see each other, we're talking. About the book and, and similarly, we get to have input on when we'd meet. So. Yeah. I think that the barrier biggest barrier for me is putting more energy into creating the spaces than joining the spaces. So similarly, like work ethic, maybe that rubbed off on me a little bit from you.
Um,
Okay, rapid fire question. Our last little thing here. I had, I was thinking the other day I was like, That's an interesting question. I was like, I should save that for the rapid fire. I can't remember what it was. Hm. So here's one for you. What was the third space that you had as a teenager?
[00:49:00] Oh, Hm.
Because contrary to what you've heard in this podcast, I was driving around work one day and came across my kids tooling on down the road on the. More than one occasion. That they definitely had more of a free room childhood. Yeah. Brooklyn and I were talking about that and I was like a part of me really loved that time of life. another part of me looks back and I was like, this is so dangerous.
'cause you guys rode your bike. Now there was one specific incident where we were writing down 17th street and Tristin. Went over a bump. She, no, she was on her own tipped over. Into the road and 17th street is a very busy road. And luckily the mom who was driving in that lane was watching out for us and immediately braked.
And I scooped her in her bike up out of the road. It was so terrifying. but that was the only really big incidents that we had were in. In a crosswalk crossing where you're supposed to know. We weren't, you weren't. You were just in the middle. We were riding down the sidewalk. [00:50:00] Parallel to 17th street.
And cars were driving. I see what you're saying. It was very scary. She could've gotten run over. but yeah, we, so we, we biked once a week to the movie theater cause we had a summer pass. so that was definitely something that we did. And then when Tina got her driver's license, we went to.
The lake quite often, which is funny because I now live next to that lake. but yeah, we went there and. What else can we do?
I really don't like counting extracurricular activities at certain spaces. Cause it was like, I think third spaces are more unstructured time. And that was very much so. Like hard work. Yeah. When you were dancing this. What you're talking. Yeah. Yeah. Which a good portion of my time was spent. But.
I also think third spaces. I'm thinking specifically elementary school, having a best friend that you spend a lot of time at their house. Yeah, I think, uh, creates a third space [00:51:00] for that and having friends gather and do that, which I know. I'm going to be part of that. Yeah, that's a good point. I definitely did plenty of sleepovers and hanging out at different parks together and doing things like that.
Yeah. So, yeah. That's a good question. Rapid fire for you. Hm. I'm really bad at these.
I should start. Pre-writing them. If you could create your perfect third space, what would you do? I think I had the perfect third space. There was a town. Lewiston, Utah, that we've lived in. I think for seven years we lived in seven different houses, but we were there for awhile. And one of the houses we've lived in, had a river that we had spent time on that river in the horses, but we ended up moving next to the river.
And going down and swimming the river and there was a big patch of grass. That was oh. Goodness. I went up to the horse's belly and being able to just kind of make a little nest [00:52:00] down there and lay next to the river. One of us not around people, sometimes it was because we had a community that rode horses with us.
That we leave at five in the morning. I go spend the day altogether playing. So, and there were what six of us that would go. So if it was a decent enough community for teenagers and. Amazing third space to be able to spend time together. Yeah. That's awesome.
Oh, okay. Well, we've come to the end of our episode here. Just a quick reminder. That we have a Patrion and you can come join us to talk about. Why we lost third spaces and how that maybe has impacted mental health. I'm going to take more of a mental health lens. On. Third spaces and yeah, that will be.
A mini episode, we do a mini episode. That's a companion to each of the main episodes that we release. And those are all over [00:53:00] on Patrion and you're welcome to join us over there. All right. I think that's it. I'll have a good day. Bye.
