Ep. 9 Breaking Down Imposter Syndrome
In this episode, we break down imposter syndrome, talk about what it is, who gets it, and top 5 tips for dealing with it. Join Penney and me as we explore the times where we have combated imposter syndrome in our lives and what tools we are using to stop perfectionism, shame, and fear from running the show. Here's to brave explorers and compassionate connections in our lives that stop imposter syndrome in its path.
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Episode 9
Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher and gen X, R N a millennial and a mother and daughter join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and penny. Good morning. Good morning and welcome to another episode.
Penney: Yeah, absolutely. Episode nine.
We've almost hit a big number 10 mark.
Janae: Yeah. It's kind of exciting. Nice. Milestone to meet our grade. Okay. So today we're going to be chatting about imposter syndrome. And how that. Impacts us and the way we show up. In the relationships that we are trying to. Create in our, in our lives.
Penney: Yeah.
I think, especially the relationship with ourself, which is as we know the most important relationship. Yeah.
So let's start by talking a little bit about what imposter syndrome is and who might [00:01:00] struggle with that? What that looks like? So for me imposter syndrome, and this is not like a Webster dictionary definition, but that moment or thoughts or feelings of doubt that we have. Regarding are we really not this person?
Are we trying to put on airs or put on a front or trying to be something that we really just are not. That shows up. definitely in.
Careers with, I never thought I would be this am I really, this it can show up and parenting with, am I a good enough parent? Do I know enough to be a parent? Am I enough to be a parent? It can show up in relationships. and my healthy enough to be in a good relationship to know what I'm doing. Am I doing this right?
Really a lot of those feelings of, I'm pretending to be something that I'm not. yeah, I would say a common phrase that I hear. And also I find running through my head at times is who am I to [00:02:00] be doing this?
that disbelief that. It's you that is in a certain position of maybe power or a certain. Position two. Make decisions and take on new things. And I think. It really boils down to that. Inner disbelief of enoughness that we've talked about before in our shame episode, and also. It reminds me a lot of shame because when I'm experiencing imposter syndrome, I'm like waiting for someone to come in and say, what are you doing?
Who do you think you are? Like, it's a lot of hiding and being paranoid that I'm going to be found out. Yeah, it definitely, for me, that voice comes up with, why do you think you have the skills, the knowledge, the. Capability of doing this. What makes you think you are enough to do this? Right?
Definitely. Yeah. So I think, what that is, hopefully that's a good enough definition. Something that you could [00:03:00] relate to and also who might struggle with it. I think we all do. I don't know, maybe there's somebody out there that really is confident enough in. How they show up in the world that they haven't experienced this.
I don't know anybody that hasn't experienced this on some level. I think in order for that to be true, you'd have to believe that. Confidence is the. Only way you make it through imposter syndrome, which I just don't believe. I think confidence comes into it a little bit, but. I think that you can have your.
Most confident person. At a really high rank in their career or whatever it is that they're feeling. And posh is in. Around and they can still get that feeling because I do think it links back to that. Those negative core beliefs about ourselves of can I really do this? am I going to fail? If I fail, is everyone going to say, well, we knew it was because you shouldn't be the one leading or you shouldn't be the one doing it. So you didn't have the skills to do that. You were not the one.
to do that. [00:04:00] Yeah. I do think that's a, a fun dichotomy. In the American dream. And that no matter where you're born in society and what level of poverty or wealth that you can. And if you work hard enough, succeed to this next level. And society, which I personally believe is a fallacy. I do think we do have opportunities.
And our country to grow and move forward, but there's definitely challenges that have to overcome in different levels. And so. I, I think it's interesting. The dichotomy between, I don't think I'm enough because of my, the station. I was born in the gender. It was born who I was born, how I was born, all of this.
And we look at other people and think, well, they should be doing that because they are this. Or they were born this way or in this place. And, uh, so it's interesting. We have the American dream where we think all of us have the capability of accomplishing that, but we have so much shame and doubt about our ability or station [00:05:00] or place to accomplish that. It's, it's a fun dichotomy.
Yeah, it's a weird thing of. Strive to always want more. But don't expect to get it. I don't know if it's, don't expect to get it, but don't get ahead of yourself or don't get too big of a head or. Yeah, keep it, keep it within reason strive to become everything. But keep it within reason don't overshoot it.
Yeah.
Yeah. As my parents used to say, don't get too big for your britches. And so I think that that sane stays there.
yeah. So our first question, or I, sorry, I'm sorry. Her second question here. How do you struggle with imposter syndrome and which areas of your life do you maybe notice it coming up in the most?
For me personally, definitely as a career, as a counselor.
It's funny. There's a lot of jokes about counselors buying books and [00:06:00] doing trainings. And I believe this is directly correlated with imposter syndrome, that you have a client come in with a situation, a. Whatever I could give a hundred examples and we immediately go to this panic of. Do I know enough? Am I enough? Can I measure up, can I be there and show up in the way that I need to? And we panicked train and we panicked by books and we.
We are always. And by very design, the nature of being a counselor is that we're not the experts and the client is the expert and when they succeed, they succeed. It's not our success. It's theirs. And so there's. You don't have those moments of yes, we did that and look what we over came and, and how accomplished we are. And so it's very much a field that breeds that am I enough? And I do think we ask ourselves that with every single client am I enough to be what they need?
Knowing what we know about being counselor it's about holding space. And showing up a hundred [00:07:00] percent ourselves. So just by definition of being able to be in the space and do that, we are enough. But there is a lot of responsibility and pressure around being able to do what we need to for our clients.
So definitely that comes up for me. In my profession definitely comes up for me as a mom. And something I've been exploring a lot more of the last couple of weeks. I was a teenage mom, so had my son when I was 17. And. Pregnant when I was 16. And there was a lot of people that doubted my ability to be a good mom. And, and then a lot of the, well, your kids will be teenage moms and they won't have an education and they will be, you know, alcoholics drug abusers because of.
Of the statistics and the Decker stacked against them. Fortunately, I have very successful, amazing children. And I do think I have been a good mom, but it has been a struggle. And so that came, that comes up as a parent all the time. Will I ever be enough? To give this baby in this human, what I want [00:08:00] them to have and for them to have the advantages in life so that they can reach that next level to accomplish the American dream. Be what we consider successful in society.
So that definitely comes up in parenting. And more, and as a partner, as I teach about and train and counsel with a couples work, and am I an imposter in the way that I show up in my own relationship and as I make mistakes and I don't do it right. And. Have moments where I don't follow the skills, the best that I could and be the partner that I want to be at definitely comes up in, in that relationship.
Yeah, I'm trying to remember what episode I want to say. It was our mini episode around redefining success for the Hilltop business. Where we were talking about the beauty in. Measuring things differently gives. Our, participant to join us for couples retreats or our women's [00:09:00] retreats and individual things. It gives them the space to recognize that it's okay to. Show up messy. And the only way we do that is being vulnerable and showing up messy ourselves. But that does create some friction internal friction within ourselves of wanting to show up. The vulnerable, wanting to show up and say, here's the. Issues within my own relationship. Here's the issues within how I communicate. And here's how I'm trying to use the same skills that we are teaching. To get better myself. Yeah.
But then not feel like an imposter, not feel like, oh, you should have this figured out by now. Why would you be teaching this? If you don't have it, figure it out. Sure. And I think just maybe as a species or just our, our brains, we don't like that. It's very black and white all or nothing. Like you should either have a figure it out or you don't know anything at all.
And it's like, that's not how it works. [00:10:00] There's a gray area of.
I feel like I say this for everything now, because it's true for everything, but it is a practice. It's always a practice. You're never going to reach a certain milestone with any of the work that we do. And it's like, yep. I've figured everything out. And I have it all and I don't need to work anymore. So which ways does imposter syndrome show up for you?
I think. Very similarly, it shows up in my work around.
Feeling like I need to constantly know more and do more trainings in order to show up confidently. It was interesting that. Half of last year and still going into this year, I have. I think I told you this, but I did a no trainings. Yeah.
And it was it's the first time since I started my first yoga certification. In 2016 that I haven't. Ben pursuing [00:11:00] one, if not more. Further education. Trainings for either yoga or business and. Really. I wanted that to allow me to take a breather, have confidence in what I already know. And implement what I already know, because something that I noticed was constantly chasing more and more information held me back in not being able to slow down enough to start implementing and fully utilizing the information that I had gained from the trainings.
So that's been an area where I've definitely noticed it. And then as I started stepping more and more into therapeutic roles, As I've. Gotten more education in working. More in those realms. It's come up. When I talked to other people who are maybe more familiar with. Quote, unquote hard sciences. Around.
You know, Those famous last words [00:12:00] of. Oh, I use like, oh, my friends may therapy. Or, I can't do yoga. I can't touch my toes and it just makes me want to beat my head against the wall basically and cry because it's like, You have, when you say things like that. You just shows that you have no deeper understanding.
And understand the meaning of what. I'm doing as a living now and what I am pursuing to do as my career. And so things like that. Get under my skin and then make me feel like no one really understands or respects the work that I do, which then leads into that imposter illness. I don't. Feel.
I think I noticed as I was ramping up last year into getting married. Feeling some imposter syndrome around, what does it mean to be a wife? What does it mean to be a partner? And what are the stereotypes that go along with that is that I feel [00:13:00] comfortable taking on. And what are some roles around that that I don't want to take on?
So that was interesting and feeling that grappling with. Not wanting to feel like an imposter, not wanting to feel like I'm not doing enough or being enough. While also letting go of the roles that I don't want to have to take on, and that don't fit me. So. Definitely some. Some things coming up in that area.
And then.
I think that's mostly it. I'm actually thinking about the small ways that imposter syndrome come up for me. Even in gardening it's spring and we are. At my house, you know, planting them, creating and, try to create a yard the way I want it to be. And that definitely comes up around that for me.
what makes me think I'm an expert in this or that I can do this, which is, I mean, it's just a small, simple thing, but there are so many things I enjoy woodworking, but I'm not trained to be able to work or so. Am I some sort of a strange imposter around that. And [00:14:00] I find myself stepping into doubt.
And taking more time to start projects. When I worry about my. My enoughness or knowledge or whatever that is in order to do those. So I think imposter syndrome for me comes up in so many ways. And so many areas, not just professionally and personally, but just everyday life things. It definitely comes up. Yeah. I feel that hard around things within my house and yeah, definitely in the yard too.
And I think it goes hand in hand with the perception of quote-unquote failure. Because if we try and we fail. Then the message we send back to ourselves is I shouldn't have ever done this. I'm was just never good enough to do it in the beginning when anytime. We're learning anything. You have to go through that trial and error. I've I've started trying to, a few years ago, after we moved into our house, I started trying [00:15:00] to compost for the very first time and I found myself calling it.
And experiment, like I'm just experimenting with it. I'm just noticing and trying to make plans. And each year I have. I done something different or vigor and, you know, fix a few things and fill it a few things in, I think the wording around that, of. I'm just messing around with it. I don't really know what I'm doing.
Has saved me from that, fear of failure, but yeah, there's definitely a weird. Link between feeling like an imposter and being worried about not only failing, but then people seeing you fail or the shame that comes with I invested money into this and it didn't work out. Or I invested my time into this and it didn't work out. And now I feel like I have, you know, pie on my face or something. Yeah.
Afraid of being found out that really, we were just trying to be, we're an imposter, trying to step in where we weren't supposed to too big for our britches. [00:16:00] More ambition than we had skill and somebody found out yes. Absolutely. So we're going to talk about five ways that we can cope with imposter syndrome.
we had 10. Worried about length of episode. So if you want to hear the other five. I'll have to pop onto patron and listen to the other five. Episodes we do for that. So five tips for dealing with imposter syndrome. First one is being able to identify the voice that comes up. As I'm talking about this, there's a very, very distinct voice that comes up for me and the wording. Um,
I think Janae said what makes me think that, for me, why do you think that you are right. and also what makes you think that I have definitely have that voice that comes up also. We're the.
Are you enough? So what is it, what is that voice for you? That that keeps you stuck. It keeps you from being vulnerable and keeps you from sticking into new things and really being able to identify that negative self-talk or that. That salvage her that, I [00:17:00] don't know, I do a lot of, um, internal family systems. And so I look at this from a parts perspective, if you know what that is.
if not, it's an, an amazing, theory that I use in my own work. And I think about this, that part of me. That is the afraid and fearful shameful. you're not enough part because you'll, you'll fail. Definitely that that's the part for me, that sabotage part. I think it's interesting how, when you start digging into.
what does that internal voice sound like? What. Words are they using or it's using. And connecting that to possibly a certain person in your childhood. Sure. Or certain phrases that were used. Towards you from a teacher or a parent or someone who didn't believe in you, who did put you down or whore used shame.
Yes. and how we hold on to [00:18:00] those phrases and. It was helpful to me to realize that because when I noticed that I'm speaking with. You know that person's languaging or that's coming up for me. I can just say. F that person. Yeah. Like it makes me angry. I'm like, I am not going to listen to that. I know that that's them, that's their opinion. And they don't know me. Like I know.
I think coming from their own place of fear, right? Yes. Their own fear that they couldn't be the parent or the person or the inspiration or the teacher. At or that they didn't feel capable of handling your disappointment? I, I joke with kids all the time in therapy that boy adults are sure. Afraid of emotion aren't they.
And they are. So I do think adults are so afraid of not being able to sit with you in the failure or sit with you and disappointment. not failure, disappointment, right? And so they want avoid it by telling you not to do it. And then you won't be heard, then they won't have to sit there and then everybody's happily ever after. And [00:19:00] we just continued to doubt our abilities. Yeah. Like.
The kid that's like, I'm going to be famous one day or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to be an actor. Yes. I have a son-in-law that wanted to be an actor. And I think he probably heard the same five things from a thousand people. That told him how he shouldn't do that and how he couldn't be enough for that. And.
I definitely, when I wanted to be a counselor, I remember very distinctly an exact phrase that somebody says, what are you going to do when to just hang up a shingle and think you're going to be a therapist. And I said, well, that's exactly what my plan is. And they laughed and said, good luck with that. And so yeah, those voices in those moments that stick with us. Absolutely. And, and I, when people asked if I was going to go into a private practice, that voice came up over and over again, what you think you're going to do that?
You're capable of that. I know we had an episode. I don't remember which one on, bosses and, people that really said you can't have your own private practice. And here's why. [00:20:00] And how untrue that was, but those definitely came up. Right. So, yes, other people's voice that become our voice. And hopefully change over time and.
Have different words to them. Yeah. And if you are a parent currently dealing with that, Of trying to shape your kids' dreams to fit something that feels more comfortable to you. Please don't do that. Yeah. Maybe just notice, let them be a superhero. Let them be whatever, because they might go through disappointment. Also. They might not.
Maybe we can be the reason why they don't struggle with imposter syndrome. Because they don't believe they're imposters in their dreams, but they believe they can show up wholehearted in their dreams. And what a gift.
Yeah. Okay, our next. Tip with dealing with imposter syndrome is, assessing. What evidence there is. So looking at something as here's, you know, All the [00:21:00] evidence that I am an imposter or I am in competent in his area, or I can't do it. And then here's column two that you show the opposite of. I can do this. I'm not an imposter.
Um, competent. I am an expert. I can bring perspective to this. And help or succeed. Yeah, here's the skills and the knowledge and the abilities that I have versus here's what I'm lacking and really comparing those two sides to see what you do have, having that reflection, I think. Using it just, as you said, as a reflection, I think starting the list and doing the list is not enough. You then have to go through the list, especially the column side that you put all the negative things in and ask yourself.
Is this true? Or is this just a voice? Is this reality? Is this grounded in reality or is this grounded in shame? Yep. Because I think if you're just doing it of, well, this column is way longer than the other column. [00:22:00] It's like, it might be way longer than that column or feel scarier because it's based out of shame and fear. Yeah, absolutely.
Next tip refocused on your values. We did an entire episode around values and how to assess our values and check in with where those are at. So take a minute to focus on what are your values and what really matters, because if your. Measuring your success on the amount of money you can make, but money is not a value for you.
Then you, you really have to assess that you really have to look at that about how does this matter. Well, then it makes you feel like nothing will ever be enough because you might be making. A bunch of money, but if that's not a value to you, then you're going to feel like you're not. You're kidding.
Still an imposter because it's still not showing up true to yourself. You're still not upholding your own value system and the things that are important to you. And instead legitimate, you are [00:23:00] trying to be someone else, which. it does make you an imposter of yourself. So really holding to your true values.
So you can be true to yourself and not an imposter. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that could be a helpful one. When earlier I was talking about. People saying things that are somewhat triggering, to my imposter syndrome, narrative of being able to say. They just don't have similar value alignment than me.
Maybe they don't have a similar experience. As me and understanding. Or that gives them the ability to understand the work that I do. And. You know, on one hand that sucks and can feel awful. But on the other hand, I'm like, that's too bad for them. Like. You know, But they'll, they can have their perspective and I can have mine. I also think another part of that is what is your value in the reason why you want to do the work?
Do you want to do the work? So people will appreciate what you do. Is that what the value is for [00:24:00] you is other people's praise your value, or what is your value? If your value is.
finding your people or your value is in I'm true to what I believe in within myself. And this is the work that I believe in then as long as you're upholding those value, other people's opinions, don't matter if you start going towards their opinions in order to. Be what they want you to be. Then you do step into that place of being an imposter.
I have to keep a. running. I have notes on my phone and then I keep a little momentos of things from students. That I know have appreciated my work because it becomes really easy for the critic in my head or the imposter to say, No one appreciates what you do. No one thinks that. This is helpful. You're not helping anyone. And. Having something that is a tangible reflection of, no, I know this student. Gained something. [00:25:00] Yeah. is helpful to me in order to combat that. Yeah. So if one of your values is being helpful for others and giving other people that gift it's important for you to do that, to be able to refocus on that.
The for you, the value isn't in, I don't know, increased knowledge or education, but the value is in how you help others. Then that's where you focus on. Definitely. It helps to keep you true to you? Yes. Yeah.
Okay, so the next one is reframing around growth. Allowing yourself to.
Make some shifts around. What does growth mean? understanding that.
There are going to be different phases of your life. That growth means different things. And also it's all a big lifelong journey. You don't have to know everything. There's such a common culture that I'm glad I'm slowly eking or aging out of, but it's so much pressure of doing everything in your twenties.
Yeah. It's like check all of the boxes of. [00:26:00] Understand your career, go to school, get your complete degree in education. Get married, have a certain number of kids. Get your house, get settled in and have it, you know, stable income. And if you don't have all of those things checked by the time you're 30.
What are you even doing? You're a failure. Incredible amount of pressure. It is. And it's so much an. It's everywhere and. I think it's important to you can Google this, like the amount of people that we quote unquote see as successful. Have gotten success in. Many many, many different ages throughout their life, or it's like some people, it was when they're in their forties or their sixties in their. Thirties in their twenties.
and allowing that to, to help ground you in the knowledge of it, doesn't all have to be right now. Yeah, I think that's interesting. I really, I finished my masters and started really my career in my thirties. And I carry shame around that still, when people say, how long have you been practicing or when did this start for you? And [00:27:00] I say, well, I didn't start until, or I, I wasn't successful until not taking into account all the amazing things that I did in my twenties.
and the, the management of my life. That was my twenties. And being able to have credit around that and be okay. That, that started in my thirties. But yeah, that definitely, we definitely carry that with us. I like to try and keep that progress, not perfection mindset, that we are always on a journey and progressing towards whatever we want that to be. Nobody reaches perfection.
That's an impossibility and, or I guess it's not, if we define perfection in our own way, but what is perfection is the fact that I am making progress and I am moving through every day. And that's my version of the perfect me. Is somebody that is always climbing. And I also like the stepping stones, not stumbling blocks that we just continue to climb.
And become that next level, that next version. That next us. It's not that we're an imposter, but we are. We're just moving forward on [00:28:00] this journey. And not meaning to have it all figured out right now. Yeah, something you said there at the end, triggered a thought that. If you've ever had a person in your life that was like, you've changed or.
You know, what makes you think that you can do this? And you're like, people are supposed to change. I am ever evolving. I'm always going to be. Changing you don't necessarily always have to be striving for the next thing. Cause I think that that becomes something that. Is then always out of reach and you're never satisfied, but.
Being lifelong learners being lifelong humans or natural creatures on the earth. We're never going to be stagnant. And if you find yourself in a lot of stagnant, Energy here, stagnant city that like, that feels. Icky. Yeah. And I do think that imposter syndrome is a good portion of what keeps us stuck there. We don't grow unless we stretch ourselves, we don't move [00:29:00] forward unless we're willing to take that step into the dark and that step into the unknown.
And maybe that feels imposter because it's not a step we have taken before. However, if we don't take the stuff, don't take the stop. Right? Is that nothing changes, nothing changes. We really have to step into the unknown into ways that we're not experts in order. To become experts. That that is the beauty of growth.
And that battle in that moment of it's okay to step there and not know. Because that is how I learned to know. Yeah. And everyone who is maybe. In the career or the station of life or whatever. They also had to take those first steps and they didn't get it right either. No.
And maybe they did, and maybe you will. But we're not going to know until we take the stuff. Yeah. I mean, they didn't get it perfect. Or are they. Before they took the stuff. You have to take the stuff into the. We think that there's some like magical aha. Ascension that's going to happen [00:30:00] or we'll just know all the things and finally feel comfortable in our skin or comfortable doing things I don't know about you, but in my career, I have never felt that. And.
It's helpful too. There's been a few journaling prompts that I've been working through where this question has come up of. What do you do now? That. Two years ago, you were five years ago, you would, it would blow their mind that you are doing. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, that is so helpful to remember because.
Like I was saying just before, when you're constantly striving, striving, striving, you never take the time to reflect and understand. Oh, wow. Like, look at where I am right now. And we can do that. Same thing about our knowledge or our confidence in what we are doing. And understanding that.
Yes. It's always going to be a growing process of learning more, but also, you know, more than you think, you know, Yes. And that we're not imposters. We're just brave explorers. Yeah. I didn't know either. You're just exploring. Right? I like that. I want to [00:31:00] maybe a camp badge when we go on our retreats and stuff and I can't badge can just say brave Explorer.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Uh, so the next one get out of your head. rumination is. Oh, such an evil. Little voice in our brain, right. About. And what if, and what if and what if and what about, and what about, and what about, and, and we really can get ourselves so stuck with the, what ifs. And the, this mites.
That we can't move out of that. We can't move forward and it really just truly keeps us so completely stuck. So one of the suggestions for this in order to help get out of that place of rumination is talk it out with someone. if we it's that, once we speak it, it doesn't have power anymore. It takes away so much power to move it out of our head, into the universe where it can be.
Looked at and examined and pulled apart and tweaked and manipulated and moved. And when they're in our head, they really just stay in that really scary circle in the hiding place. So. Talk to someone [00:32:00] put it out there, even if you just say it out loud to your. Yourself, say it in your mirror. I write it down on your list and speak it.
Speaking to us so much power, to dissipate the fear that comes with things. So, yeah. Get it out of your head. Stop thinking about it, speak it and move forward with them. Yeah. Getting out of the cycling thoughts, it can be really hard to do, but so helpful when you finally feel that transition or you feel that.
Letting go. I think we all hold on to that rumination in cycling of thoughts. Out of fear and out of a want to control all outcomes. And so once you let go of that of saying, I don't have control of all the outcomes and I never will, no matter how long I think about it. No matter how many. Plans or things that I try and set into place. Like you can never.
anticipate every single thing. So. I think we do get to this place of afraid to speak what is in our head, because [00:33:00] we don't want somebody to say that may be true. Right. That if we just keep it in there a little circle on cycle, the only people who are torturing ourselves on the only person that might be able to discover that's true is ourself.
I mean when we speak it out, it's funny how people have such a different perspective and can really help us analyze and look at that, or for me, and this is the power of talk therapy that gets so much criticism, but sometimes just speaking it and hearing it. How the amazing power. It just does. It puts it in the room and really gives you a chance to examine it.
Where you say it out loud and you go, wow. That, that sounded really different coming out of my mouth than how that really felt inside. Yeah. I've definitely had therapy moments like that of saying out loud and then. Having that, eye contact connection with the therapist and then saying like, oh yeah,
Hmm. I don't believe that. It came out of my mouth in an immediately, felt wrong as it was entering the world. Like that is very powerful. It's a [00:34:00] powerful tool. And also, I think it's helpful, even if you say something out loud and someone does say like, yeah, that might be true. You can then say, yeah, it might be true. And then you get to choose what you do with it from there. Like, okay. If it is true.
does it still make the venture worth it to try or if it is true, what supports can you bring in to help? You know, but when you're stuck in your head, And you're not speaking through it with anyone else. You're cutting yourself off from all of the resources and support that could help you come up with solutions. If that's the space that you're in is meeting solutions.
Absolutely. Support. Yeah.
Okay. Real quick. We're going to talk about. our sponsor for our episode, which is Hilltop wellness. If you didn't know, Hilltop wellness is a retreat and event company based in. South Eastern Idaho. It's also a company that penny and I both [00:35:00] collaborate with. And we provide online courses. We have some weekend retreats coming up this summer and then some day events in the fall for parents coming up as well. So some personal development, couples therapy, parenting skills.
All. Rolled up into some nice retreats, our day events. so we invite you to come join us on one of our healing nature retreats, maybe the summer. And you can get more information about all the events that we are collaborating with at. Hilltop wellness.net. And we'll make sure and put the link for that in the show notes.
Okay. It takes two to tango. It takes two. So who can you trust? Too. Talk through those things in all the different areas and aspects of your life that you were reflecting on at the very beginning of the episode. who do you turn to to challenge those [00:36:00] negative thoughts and doubts when imposter syndrome starts popping up for you?
For me, it's a lot of people, definitely myself. I do a lot of self-talk out loud. I talked to myself often. If you know me, you've probably heard me do that. If you walked down the hallway in our building's excuse me. You've probably heard me talking to myself. It's a very common thing for me.
Also my partner. He is a great person for me to bounce ideas off of. He is an amazing cheerleader and his okay. So with going well, have you thought about which then instantly I go to defensiveness and have to work on my own skills around that my own fear of being an imposter. And I appreciate his ability to step into that with me and be able to rumble that with me, definitely my family and my children, my office partner, Jenny and other people on my team that I work with that I have a, I have a great support system for being able to.
Put those things out there and have those conversations. That I have built a very trusting network and I can think of times in my life [00:37:00] when I thought that I had that network and then it was really hurt and less trusting of building friendships and building relationships. And I am really happy for the current relationships that I have.
And the ability to support me as I, as I step into new adventures. And fears and shame and doubt, and that imposter is screaming in my head that they're really helpful in being able to assess those out and work through those.
Yeah, I can definitely relate to all of that, of feeling really supported by the team. Tina and Tori, if you haven't listened to our episode that we did with them. it would have been the episode right before this. You can go listen to that and get an understanding of. Our vibes as collaborators. It's really nice to be able to have all of us to.
Balance off of, and. And use as a sounding board. I definitely use that day to day in my work with you [00:38:00] and in my therapy work, being able to have someone to. That is, you know, you fully know that they're in they're. In your corner and can help you. I work through all of the things that are coming up. and then, yeah, my, my partner as well of being able to.
Have the knowledge that I can speak, whatever. Crazy or scary thing. Might be in my mind and know that that will still be a safe place to land or fall. And, That's that's a comforting thing to know and can really help with the fear and shame around those kinds of conversations. Yeah, absolutely.
So we, Need to spin the wheel. Yeah. Run over and grab our wheels since we forgot it.
we have our usual two questions. and we will spend to see if we're answering [00:39:00] for. God or for even.
Go ahead, penny.
I have a number two. All right. So an even, even as how do you see societal norms on gender impacting? Imposter syndrome. I know we've talked a little bit about gender before, and I, I do think that we. I have an entire story around this, but I won't share. That we raised. Different genders thinking they can do different things. Right? You can do this. If you're female, you could do this. If you're male, and if you're not, you can't.
And. I think we are very much pushed into imposter syndrome around what the sexist can and cannot do. Can you do math? Can you do science? I think that's being challenged more. Can you lift things? Can you do construction? Can you drive a big truck? Can you take care of your child on. Your own. Can you run a household? Can you cook?
[00:40:00] Yes. Yes. I was going to do female and male. Jumped into that for me. So, yeah, there was a situation where there was a conversation I was involved in about, well, boys are just slower learner than girls, so you just can't expect things out of them. And. And I immediately went to a completely defensive stance around that.
What. What kind of disservice are we doing to her male gender when we're saying, well, I'm sorry, we're a better and smarter than you were. And we're always going to be ahead of you, but maybe you'll catch up eventually and be able to be enough. And I, that happens the other side of that with male-to-female instead of realizing.
We're not imposters and that there are not gender lines around what we can and cannot do over anything. And I think this is a big one, a huge one, definitely being a business owners. I had plenty of. Male, bosses or other agency owners. Who women can't do these things because they're too emotional women can't do this because they get too involved or, or you have to take time out to have a baby or take care of a family. So you really can't take care of these things.
so yeah, [00:41:00] absolutely. I think gender has played a huge role in them. Maybe a conversation for another episode, but I came across a video recently. That was basically like, how crazy it is for the societal view of your too emotional to only apply to women because we've somehow skewed anger, not to be an emotion.
Oh, yeah. It's an okay. Emotion. And you can have that one. Yeah. Okay. I will take a stab at our wheel now.
Oh, and we're balanced today. I got an odd, so. Uh, our odd question is how do you see societal norms on body shape, impact imposter syndrome. I think. As I've done more and more work into becoming educated on. What it means for. People of different body sizes to step into the world. And. fat [00:42:00] liberation, in fact advocacy. It's really opened my eyes into how it does impact people. I always knew it had an impact, obviously, but. I think it's easy for people to. Just brush it off or all of the.
Harmful impacts just gets turned against them and it gets sent as well. If they really wanted to change, they would change. And then they wouldn't be experiencing these things. And it's like, how is that the answer? Was that even remotely helpful to anyone like is not so, And it's also not based in any kind of truth or science in what people deem as your ability to change.
Not even questioning why does there need to be changed? If someone has to change in order for you to give them respect. Value and compassion as a person. I think you're the one that needs to change. So getting back to the main question of how do I see the. [00:43:00] Body shape, impact imposter syndrome. I see this in myself of.
If I have a meeting coming up, I feel pressure to put on makeup. I feel pressured to do my hair a certain way. I felt pressure to wear heels, to look more feminine, to look more quote unquote, traditionally pretty or conventionally pretty. And how that impacts my. Own. Perception of how my body is showing up and what worth my body has in the world.
And how I only gain worth or can gain respect through fitting into those traditional body shapes and roles. I'm not wearing a certain kind of yoga clothes because I don't want to make it look like I'm flaunting a body type or, Taking business meetings in yoga clothes. and not feeling like a business owner, if I'm dressed too casual, like things like that. Come up for me all the time.
I'm not in [00:44:00] a bigger body. I'm not in a fat body. I don't understand fully, obviously what, people who are. What. Stigmas and barriers that they're coming across. I'm. Love reading about it. I don't love reading about it. It makes me extremely sad and depressed, but. It is something that I'm interested in reading about and talking about and working through.
In my own work and in the work that I do in the yoga space to make it more equitable. But. I think it's helpful to mention that. I don't fully know. just because. I'm not in that body. I haven't. Experienced it myself, but I do see it and I do understand it.
So. Any further. Or last minute. Thoughts on imposter syndrome before we pop into our rapid fire.
I guess we could do a quick summary around imposter syndrome comes from a place of doubt, fear and shame. And it keeps us stuck and not moving forward and new adventures or new parts of ourself. It definitely is [00:45:00] something that we have to step into vulnerability in order to combat. And, that it shows up for all of us in lots of different ways and so many different things. Even in cooking, I grew up with the idea that like my sisters cooked and I didn't, and then all of a sudden I had to cook for a family, but I don't know how to cook from.
I'm an imposter and trying to do that. Right. I'm not a Schaeffer or there's just so many ways that that comes up around nutrition and body. And are we an expert in, are we not? So I think just a summary of this is something that comes up in so many different ways. And really is based in doubt and shame and fear.
Yeah. And I think the number one tip we can give for how to combat it is. Lean into. Curiosity. Compassion and community. Yep. Speak about it, write it down. Challenge that imposter thought in your head. And really questioned it. Is this true? Be curious about it. And then, move forward. Yeah.
So rapid fire question, rapid [00:46:00] fire. Just going to rapid fire first, today, whoever thinks of their question first, I guess. Uh, what is the moment, you know, you've transitioned from winter to spring. Is there a ritual or a theme around that for you? I noticed that this year. Uh, smell. Hm. A change in the way.
When I come home a certain time in the evening. The air. Smells differently weather and like temperature plays into that a little bit. But I also think it's just like, there's all of a sudden, a smell of summer or spring in the air. Yeah. Uh, for me living around farms, that's a distinct smell. And you are being spread and, uh, it's just being burned.
And some of those are not always pleasant smells, right? Yep. Yeah. Hm.
If you had to choose between living. In. Perpetual. Moon. Wait. Slash darkness or perpetual sunlight. [00:47:00] Which one would you choose? Probably sunlight. There are a lot of things that we can do in order to.
Do you use blackout curtains or other things in order to create darkness? I don't think there's anything really do. I know there's artificial sunlight and lights and lamps, but I don't think anything really replaces that feeling. The beat of the sun on your face, that soaks into your body. And you just enjoy that, that warmth in that place.
All right. We've made it to the end of our episode. And now next one big celebration. Number 10. Yeah, thanks for joining us. We hope to. Have you for, along for the ride for our episode 10 and you know, all of our episodes to come. A quick reminder, if you want those five other tips in a furthering conversation between penny and I, about imposter syndrome, that will be in our mini episode. Over on Patrion. We do mini episodes that are companion episodes for each of our main [00:48:00] episodes over on Patrion.
So you can go and check those out. and. That's $5 a month. If you have any questions on it, let us know. And we hope to see you over there. Helps support the podcast and the work that penny and I do. So. Thanks so much for joining us and we'll catch you next time. Absolutely. Have a good day. Bye bye.
