Ep. 14 Friendships in Adulthood
This episode opens up conversations about making friends as an adult. We discuss the internal and external barriers to friendship. What are the personal responsibilities around friendships vs. societal responsibilities? We end by giving some actionable steps to creating deeper friendships and how to have connected conversations about your expectations and needs in these relationships.
Ep. 14 Friendships in Adulthood
Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a gen X-er and a millennial and a mother and daughter join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and penny.
Penney: Hi and welcome. What goes on number 14. Yeah.
Janae: So we're going to be talking about. Friendships in adulthood today. And.
It's an interesting topic of like how your. Perception of friendships change as you move into adulthood and how your expectations of what friends, friendship looks like changes. And so, yeah, I'm excited to get into it. Yeah, absolutely. I think the idea about, expectations, right? From kids to adults.
Penney: And what friendship means. Even high school to adulthood, what friendships mean as they deepen and change over time? I think that's an interesting [00:01:00] thought to explore.
Janae: Yeah. And really, if you like went to college and you were in like a dorm situation or more. Had roommates for, you know, an extended period of time in your early adulthood that even.
Shifts to where it's, maybe you're living alone or living with a partner. And then it's all of a sudden, like, Oh, gosh. How do we make friends? How do we get those connections? And we've talked about in some of our other blogs and podcasts episodes, where we've talked about how putting too much pressure on your significant other, or your partner on having them be your one and only friend or the person that you need to do all of your extra curricular activities with can be really.
The only word I can think of is like damaging in a relationship, but I guess. So this can be kind of a counter episode to that for. People, if you are in a partnership or you're in a relationship and [00:02:00] how. This can be a helpful tool for you, but also for anyone that's, you know, single and you're an adult.
Maybe you're a new adult. Maybe you've been adulting for a long time and you're just trying to figure out. How to make friends and how to kind of adjust expectations or figure out really what you want from a friendship.
Penney: Yeah, just thinking about, The CDC report, 60% of adults worldwide. feel lonely, they report feelings of loneliness and the quote from Bernie brown on what connection means, right. The antithesis.
And the sense of loneliness is, defining connection as the energy that exists between two people. And they feel seen, heard and valued. You can give and receive without judgment. And you re derive sustenance and strength from the relationships. So if you think about those three big pieces of that,
You feel seen, heard, and valued. You [00:03:00] don't feel judged. And you get sustenance and strength from a relationship. That's a tall order really think about what is required. In order to feel connection between two people. And I think about that versus I don't know, an elementary school or even a middle school relationship, really middle school. When that starts to shift where it's, Hey, you sat by me a lunch and we like to play on the monkey bars together. We're friends.
There's a really big shift in what's required from friendship from childhood. Into adolescence where so much of it is. Wanting to get that, that strength, right. and to, to feel seen and heard as we're breaking away to become our own self. And to adulthood where that is the expectation of connection and relationships. that's a huge change as a huge shift as we go through development.
Of what friendships look like. Now versus then.
Janae: Do you think that we're just less [00:04:00] susceptible to feeling judgment when we're at that younger age? Because it's so self-focused in that stage of development.
Penney: Well, I don't know if it's less susceptible to judgment. I do think children's still feel shame from parents and from friends and when you're teased or if you're bullied. So I don't know if it's, we're less susceptible to shame.
I think it's that we are less susceptible to judge, because I think we feel that, but I don't think it's that we. We get, like, we just, we derive our strength and our sustenance from that. I think we get it from being egocentric. And I mean less. So when we're really in that mid, that five to. 11 year old range, wherever Lessig is centric, but really if you talk to kids during that timeframe, they want to.
Save the world recycle. Take care of the animals. Like they're very. They, they get their meaning from life and for their selves [00:05:00] in a different way and how they care for others. not necessarily in the connections that they make. I think it's different. Also, I think we have our parents and family members that we can get some of that from depending on the family situation.
But yeah, I definitely see that shift. Where then your adolescent, where you're so egocentric in the world just focuses around you to adulthood, where we start to step back out into seeing others and. And how we show up in the world with other people and we need more of that. So I do think that's interesting, but it is a tall order.
To expect that from friendships and from other people. Yeah. And also something that we're not taught how to do well with the foundation, work of, it requires a lot of vulnerability to be able to trust someone. And to show up. Fully to be fully seen and heard. And. In order to test whether you are going to feel judgment from them or [00:06:00] not. You have to put something out there that you would feel judged by.
Janae: And it's also like really nerve-wracking to give someone that's not necessarily. Physically or contractually attached to you? The power of this gives me sustenance. This gives me a lot of pleasure and happiness. But also it can end at any time. Right? You can move, you can switch jobs. You can. You know, when you have significant other relationships or family relationships, it seems safer to foster those. When you know that there's quite a lot, that's connecting you for an extended period of time.
Where are the friends you don't have that. Yeah, excellent point. The vulnerability that goes into being able to form those connections and form those friendships and how scary that is. And I think about that we are more likely maybe to form work relationships because maybe they feel more permanent or marital relationships, or, you know,
Penney: Relationships where there is some, some sort of a piece of paper contract or agreement [00:07:00] of long-term sustainability. That's not there. And day-to-day friendships. Yeah, that makes sense. It's a lot of sense.
Janae: Yeah. It's like, if you don't have the safety net of all, I know we are going to see each other.
Be around each other. I mean, there's always the convenience factor of that, of like, if it's a work place relationship of like, yeah, I see you everyday at work. and you know, you don't have to necessarily make plans or schedule it outside of. Your regular activities and stuff that can be helpful. But also I do think that there's a weird psychological thing where I've heard people say like, you're, whether you're in a more transient period of your life or, or things like that, where it's like,
do we even put roots down here? Like, is it worth it? And. If it doesn't feel like it is, then you might be taking yourself out of the equation of giving that vulnerability and making those connections.
Penney: Yeah, absolutely. So it would make sense. Why there's that pervasive feeling of loneliness for adults [00:08:00] worldwide?
Due to fear of vulnerability and being hurt. Right. And having those taken away. And if you think about the transitions over time with that, as you've lost friendships that maybe you built in elementary school, middle school, high school, college. When you're hitting adulthood, that a lot of those relationships are you.
I mean, I think we all think that in high school that we're going to be best friends forever, and we're never going to lose these people. When the reality is. Often we do. You know, And so I think we've already gone through a lot of loss and if you've worked your first job or your second job, and you really become close to your coworkers, and then you leave that job and they go away too, there isn't that longterm sustainability.
That there is there's some losses and some grief and some sadness. around that. Yeah. So I think
Janae: that's where like adjusting expectations. Like no one. Like. Media really portrays, like you're [00:09:00] saying these high school relationships being, and they'll be all really long-term or college relationships being really long-term.
And there was definitely a phase that I went through where there was an adjustment of, is it okay to let these go, you know, kind of hearkening back to our episode last week, where it was learning how to let go of some things. And is it okay, how do I feel about that? And how do I release shame or judgment I have against myself of, am I a bad friend? Because it's just become.
You know, either too hard or just not as fulfilling to be friends with these certain people. Not that there was any big blow up or anything, but it was just like, People change in. Whether you're changing geographically or you're just changing. Your personality. I mean, there's so much growth between 18 to 26, just within our brains. Like.
Your interests are changing and your [00:10:00] perception of yourself has changing. So it makes sense for a little bit more oven flow. And I think that we don't really hear about that transition and we don't talk about ways to get through that transition. when we're growing up, we don't learn how to do it. So it feels really weird when you're going through that of like, oh gosh, how do I.
Gently release this person. I still care about them. I still think about them a lot, but it's just not as close of a relationship. It's like slowly letting it. Die for lack of better words. Sure.
Penney: Instead of the celebration of transition and moving forward. Yeah. I also think about the. That expectation we have or, I mean, I think it's a.
creature thing too, just how we're built of that avoidance of pain that a loss of a relationship is painful and it, it does hurt. It hurts in the same part of the brain. The physical pain hurts on so that if I don't build relationships and friendships, I don't have to hurt when they go away, [00:11:00] becomes a natural protective instinct and leads to very armored life instead of allowing friendships and relationships to happen.
instead of, we keep everybody at arms length. I, and I think I've referenced this book before, but I have, was it called. Live laugh, learn or something by Leo Buscaglia and I might have the title on that wrong. And his challenge in the book was really to show up in a non armored life and look at everybody as.
In vulnerability and show up in vulnerability to see what they could teach you and they could given your life. And, and I read that book. What was I. 20, I think I was 20. And that really has had such an impact on my view of the world. And I haven't shown up always in vulnerability and I haven't done that really well, but at the time it really impacted me in this continued to, as I think about.
What would it be like to show up unarmored and vulnerable in relationships and how different would all of my human interactions would be if I could do that. [00:12:00]
Yeah. Definitely. If I looked at the world as friends and as building friendships. And the ebb and flow of letting things in and letting things go. And that that's a normal, natural part of life. And that the pain that comes from that as okay. Yes. And then I will make it through. Yeah. Feel sad. I will feel lost. I will feel lonely.
And then I will find new friends and then we'll move forward. And that that's okay.
Janae: Yeah, I think it's like allowing for, like you said, that. Uh, and flow of this, person's going to have their phase in my life where there. Really connected and really important. And then that phase, my end. It doesn't mean that you're never going to have a friendship like that ever again, it just makes room for someone else to come in, in.
Have that impact on you? Sure. So, yeah, I do think that there's quite a lot of questioning or armoring up around. Is it worth it, and we know it signs back. It's worth it. We need connection. We need to [00:13:00] have those kinds of relationships where we do feel sustained and fulfilled and seen and heard. And when it's not put on just one person, one significant other in our life.
It becomes a lot easier.
Penney: Yeah. I think about lessons from that of people who I think about throughout my life to have been really good at friendships and been really good friends to me. And I had one Tommy as we were ending college. And we were doing, I think our last study group before finals and panic, that was coming up in me. And I think I made the comment of, you know, this is ending and we will never get to have these friendships again and feeling so much sadness around that.
And one of the members of the study group said, you're right. But when we see each other, again, even if it's in four years or 14 years, It's going to feel like we were friends and we'll feel the connection all over again because we've already built it. And that's the beauty of friendship is that it's still there and you have it. It just comes and.
Then it might go for a minute, but it's still there. You still have formed the connection. You still [00:14:00] have formed the relationship. You still have the friendship. It just may not be present in that moment. And what an impact that had on your right. This is the normal moving forward. And it doesn't mean that we don't want to move forward. And it doesn't mean that we don't want to have the friendship. It just means that it, it serves for now.
And, and you will still have that. It's still there. It doesn't go away. Right. And when you see them in 14 years are going to feel the
Janae: same. Yeah. It's interesting because me and my college best friend also had similar conversations. It was more of a joke where it was like, we can go. You know,
Quite a long time of not consistently talking. And then when you come back together, it feels like no time has passed and you can just pick right back up without skipping a beat. And how that really is because you've built that foundation of friendship and that doesn't go away. Yeah.
Penney: And that you feel so sustained, right. Because the friendship is still present and you don't feel alone in the world.
[00:15:00] But when you see each other, again, you do get that feeling of, of being seen and heard and that reconnects of yes, I'm seen and heard in the world and that there are people in the world that do know me. Yeah. So that's a good feeling. Yeah.
Janae: Yeah. Okay. So our next question is about like what's personal responsibility and what is societal responsibility?
You wrote that one. So maybe you had that off, cause I'm not entirely sure where you're
Penney: going with that. I think for me, it's a. when ever I'm writing blogs on the topic of loneliness, which happened quite a few where I'm having these conversations. I, I feel like sometimes it can come across the shaming.
Or the idea that if you want to have a friend, you have to be a friend, uh, the conversation we just had, if you wanted. Build connection. You have to step into vulnerability. And so where is our responsibility and doing that and where is societal's responsibility and supporting that? And so maybe from what we just talked about, the way we're leaning [00:16:00] is it's our responsibility to be able to show up a vulnerability, right.
And this is silo's responsibility to maybe help educate. The generations. Around that it's okay to show up in vulnerability and we can have space for vulnerability and that we can do better. About being sad when somebody goes away, instead of somebody who's losing an error, even a comment. Oh my gosh. It looks like you just lost your best friend. I mean, we use that comment. So flippantly.
Instead of, wow. It is so hard when we lose our best friend. Can I agree with you and be sad with you and experiences loss with you, and then we'll move forward together. Because it is hard and it is sad and it is normal and it is okay. And then we'll find new friends. Right? So I think as a society, I think we could do better about allowing feelings and emotions to happen around it.
And as our impersonal responsibility to be able to have that. Step into it. And show up and be vulnerable to create those [00:17:00] relationships, instead of it being all on the person of like, well, if you would just be vulnerable and show up, and if you would just go out. It would just make friends. Signed a new community, go do something get out. Right. I think that there could be a lot of shame around that.
And it comes across as a very personal responsibility. So where a society's responsibility in that also.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah. I want to add to that for other societal things that could help facilitate that change is like, Showing more. Stages or ages where you have friendships. Right. There's so many movies where.
The characters are over a certain age. And the only people that they hang out with is their significant other and their kids. And it's like, where is the representation of adult friendship? Like. Past college years. Uh, past, you know, maybe the first few years of having kids. Cause, you know, you, you sometimes get that mom group, but it's like, [00:18:00] where's the grandparents with a really healthy social network, whereas you're in middle aged people. Right. So it's like, how do we.
How could that help change their perspective? I think
Penney: we even have some, maybe with older populations, but there is definitely a gap. Of what friendships looks like and realistic friendships. Right. Yeah. Yeah. What do they really look like if you're not a. I don't know, a 60 plus white person, that's either a mom or wealthy and can travel the world with your friends. I, I do think there's, a lot of misrepresentation there about what friendships might look like.
Janae: And I want to swing over to the way society portrays. Male friendships. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Because I was. You know, there's a lot of research that shows when you have a heterosexual couple. And, The woman dies in there. Little bit more elderly, and the [00:19:00] woman dies. The man is more likely to die sooner because he doesn't have any social connections and how sad that is. It's like he relied on the wife to get all of his social interactions in scheduling and, you know, making those kinds of connections and then keeping them.
And once she's gone, he loses that and loneliness is painful and loneliness. It decreases our health.
Penney: And about how those relationships can look in space. They don't have to look like female relationships, right? Yeah. Yup. That they can look like we go golfing twice a week together and we spend time together. And that is how I feel seen and heard and gained substance sustenance from that. Right. It doesn't have to be.
It looks like this. It can, it also doesn't have to be with, we don't show each other. Right. No way. But just allowing that natural process to happen. Yeah, absolutely. And allowing space for that. Yeah.
Janae: And I also think that as a [00:20:00] society, we don't do a great job of helping facilitate or prioritize friendships.
Where it's so. You know, go, go, go get a side hustle. Ah, onto your actual job and then, you know, have the kids and it's like where and where are you supposed to be able to make time for friendships and your free time? Yeah, exactly. Well, you're not
Penney: supposed to. Because we're supposed to live in our work and in the other space, 24 7, right? Yeah.
So, yeah.
Janae: So another societal thing that could shift to start helping facilitate
Penney: that. So some societal responsibility around that. No. I agree.
All right. So our next question is what are some internal barriers that can get in the way of adult friendships?
I think a lot of fear comes up around adult friendships or maybe expectations, you know, having those expectations of having it look like it did back when, or, In this [00:21:00] busy life and busy schedule that I have. Do I have the emotional capacity to be able to put emotions into a friendship. I do think that comes up. We're judged fear of judgment. I think we have so much more fear of judgment now than we did then. Will I be good enough? Will I be able to be there for someone or will.
Are there fears around the emotional support that goes into friendships? Yeah, I think that. The. Ease with which friendships come into your life. When you are younger is supported by the amount of time that you're spending around one another. And then when you become an adult, there's just not as much.
Time that you have, unless you're working with the people that you're friends with. To be able to foster those relationships. So then it becomes like a. How do you keep in contact with one another? Relation my experience, it becomes like who's responsible for reaching out and how often. And then are you doing that often enough? [00:22:00] And you know, there've been a lot of.
Moments where I've questioned, like, um, my being a good friend or have I dropped the ball and that can get kind of stressful to start questioning and. Putting a lot of pressure on whether you're doing it. Quote, unquote, the right way. Yeah. I think about the internal. Struggle with adult friendships.
As far as emotional support, when you're. You know, seven and on the playground. Maybe the emotional support comes from. You know, boy, those boys were mean, or, you know, you look sad today. If you ask that sometimes we're not even aware of that at seven. What I do think as adults is a lot more pressure of being there as there's relationship issues and changes, and there's a lot more emotional support.
That happens as adults. Yeah. It's like, I'm a double edge of being vulnerable enough to show. Areas and within your [00:23:00] life that you need support within, which can be hard to gauge and find within friendships. And then. If you do give that. Emotional vulnerability then it's like, Are you getting the support that you need back or on the flip side, if you're the one listening to a friend going through that.
That can be a lot to hold onto and know what to do with. Yeah. And I think as a society, we haven't been taught to do that well, and we don't do that well. and a lot of ways of, that's really too vulnerable or is this an okay emotion to share? How do I. You know, console or validate or empathize with this other person. I also think there's a lot of phase of life things that happen.
With adult relationships that you're really good friends. And then maybe they get married and your symbol changes the relationship, or they have children. You don't change as the relationship, maybe. They go through a divorce or their spouse passes, [00:24:00] changes the relationship. and things that I think there's a lot of changes. Things don't really stay static.
And so being able to ease into that ebb and flow of relationships is also harder. We want to hold on instead of knowing people are going to come and go. Yeah, it's hard to. To know that N two. Come to terms with that, I guess. I think we talked about this a little earlier, but it was like,
The friendships that you see within media, it's like your best friends for life. or when the person comes into your life, you want to have like those lifelong friendships. And it can be really hard to reconcile the reality of. Sometimes that doesn't happen. I mean, I know that there are people that do keep either really, really long-term or lifelong friendships and that's great, but in my experience, it just.
It's a hard. Expectation to live up to, and it can become a source of [00:25:00] like shame or judgment of like, what's wrong with me. Or am I being a bad friend? If I'm. You know, Letting this. Uh, slowly fizzle out. Yeah, absolutely. And it's hard. I noticed that there were groups of friends that I've had since high school, and it's hard to then meet back up with them because I'm like, I feel like.
A completely different person from when I was in high school. And it's really hard to then have similar interactions with people. From that time within your life, when you feel. Almost no connection to that time within your life anymore. And it's like, you have to learn how to grow and change as the whole group.
Or else it doesn't feel comfortable anymore. Yeah. And it was weird trying to be okay with showing up more as my current self. And not trying to morph back into those roles that I [00:26:00] had in, younger versions. Yeah. So some of that internal struggle is being able to just show up as who we are, where we are and allowing people to accept that, or choose not to accept that.
That'd be in true to ourselves in those friendships. Yeah. And I do like that. You mentioned. Like the. The struggle or the cost of having to be within those moments of vulnerability when we've talked about this before, but it's like, no, one's really taught you how to do that, unless it was really modeled well for you during childhood, how to.
Be there with someone when they're going through grief or be there with someone as they are going through heavy or difficult emotions. And what do you do and how do you hold space for that? And it's similar to how we talk about in our couples stuff. It's like, there's no, map that you're given. There's no instructions that you're given on how to do this properly. [00:27:00] So then when you're in it, you're like, oh gosh,
Am I doing this wrong? And I think that that is again, an internal judgment that can come up and then it feels really uncomfortable to try and step into those relationships. Again. If you feel like you're not doing it correctly. Yeah. And I think there's some fear around how do I set boundaries within the friendships and still have the friendships last and do it in a gentle way. Yup.
Or the idea of the expectations. That's a good enough conversation we have for couples all the time. but if you think about that in friendships, I don't know that I've ever had a conversation with a friend that started with, so what are the expectations of us as friends? And where are we? Okay. And where are we not. Okay. And what is okay for you and what is not okay for you?
And yet the power of that is, would be beautiful. Yeah. It's true. That's very true. Being able to have that kind of conversation in, get on the same page. Yeah. I think that's a great point. Okay. That bleeds nicely into our next section, which [00:28:00] is if you're wanting to create. More foster adult friendships. you can start by asking yourself, what do you want from adult friendships? This could be like a reflection of what do you want to change out of your current friendships that you have, or if you feel like you don't have very many.
And you would like to start fostering them. This could be a great place to start with, like, okay, what do I want? it's hard to go out and get new friends. If you don't exactly know what you want from them. Yeah. I also think, what level of friendships do I want to, why I'm on somebody at the gym that we take the class and wave at each other once a week or twice a week. Do I want someone that.
We have deep conversations with over coffee. Do I want someone to go on vacation with, do I want someone that. We wave at each other when we walk our dogs in the morning. I mean, there's so many different levels of friendship that I think it's deciding for you in your life. What is the level of friendship that you need?
Or want. And [00:29:00] then being able to look for it that way. So again, understanding the mission. And before we, before we go out to try and accomplish it, I also think that it's a good place to set or reflect back on past friendships that you've had of things that you appreciated about those friendships and maybe things that you.
maybe we'd like to change. I know that in the past. In the women's group that I run there have been a lot of women that talk about unfulfilling friendships, where they feel like they're just there to be a sounding board and they're not. Getting similar. support or feedback from the other side and whether that's a fear of being emotionally vulnerable in order to get that, or maybe they have, and it hasn't been received well, you know,
Well, however that ends up coming up. That could be something that's like, okay. When I'm fostering new friendship, this is something [00:30:00] that I want from it. And you can start. Moving forward with that, with that intention. Absolutely. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think the other thing to really think about with those intentions is what level of emotional battery do I have to spend?
because different people in different relationships require different parts of that, that can really burn us out on friendships. And so I'm definitely, as I talk with people, there's different levels of engagement that they want or engagement really that they can handle. And maybe that's only 20 minutes or maybe that's an hour. Maybe that's a phone call every day, or maybe, you know, it's less. So what can you give in a relationship and what do you expect back.
I like that too, of how do they feed your emotional battery? And in what way? That works. So setting up those expectations right at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Getting clear on them and then. If you are. Already in friendships. That can be [00:31:00] either. Changing the way your showing up. what's in those relationships or like penny, Lucy, it could be a conversation that you're having with them of like, Hey we, can we check in with just expectations around our relationship?
You know, That's such a common thing within significant other romantic relationships, but making it more common within all the relationships that you're within can be really impactful. Like penny was saying. being able to have those conversations and step into like the, oh yeah. That is helpful to get on the same page.
Like we don't have to be mind readers or try and figure out what do they want, how does that align with what I want and need? Yeah. And getting clear on that before that conversation. like we were saying is probably the best. If you just go in their guns, a blazing that might get really messy. Yeah, it's definitely a conversation about, Hey, let's just do a check-in on our friendship and are your needs being met and what are your expectations? And.
Our mind needs being [00:32:00] met, what are my expectations and not a critical way, but, uh, you know, I'm using those, I feel about what, and I need conversation. Most general startups really important. Yeah. What are some other small ways that. We can start moving towards combating those internal and external fears and barriers that we've been talking about.
What do you think the getting clear up for the internal barriers? I also think if you haven't done your own shame, work around judgment and fear and relationships, I recommend that. To really dive into what's holding you back from that. And really ask yourself those questions. And then I think as far as the other barriers,
You have to start talking to people, whether that's, you are. Walking your dog every day. And you wave at the same person, have more of a conversation. How are you? What's new with you? That can look like joining a new group, joining a new situation. That introduces [00:33:00] new people into your life. common interest, common things that you like to do.
Thank you. If you were playing on the swings and there was the same kid playing on the swings with you every day, you just started to talk with the kid on the swings. And there's a lot of that that happens.
Yeah. It's um, you know, there's always the cliche saying of like, it'll just put yourself out there. And honestly, there is some truth to that. Yeah. If you are in a place in a community that has a someplace that does game nights, so you can go play board games or trivia that you can go play trivia or.
Something that pulls people together into a group. I recommend that. If there's free community activities, go join those and see who you meet. Generally, those are designed. Around trying to pull people in to build the community.
volunteer. That's a great way to get to know people. Yeah. And I think that. What's great about that option too, is there's already a [00:34:00] common interest to build things around. And then. It doesn't have to be so like, Um, painful. And to get into. Well, and then it's preset up, right? If you're joining something that happens weekly or biweekly, then you just show up to that and the people will be there and you can build a relationship from that instead of the.
Having to push and plan, and then you could be checking in. Does this person meet my expectations? Do I feel like they're pushing my boundaries? Do I feel. Things coming up around that and really be able to go from there. Yeah, I like that. I also. just reflecting on. You know, meeting different expectations. I think that it's okay too.
Have, I don't know. I view my relationships within my life and it's like different circles or rings slowly, starting really close and slowly moving outward. And I think you need people on each of those rungs, each of those rings. And so. If it is like, uh, we don't talk [00:35:00] about anything other than our, you know, class that we do and we just meet every week or every two weeks or once a month.
That's still someone that is within your community of support that is still serving a purpose. I think that we put a lot of pressure on, okay. I've met someone and now I need to immediately reach out to them, get their phone number and start hanging out with them. One-on-one really consistently become best friends, become best friends. Exactly. It's like that.
Um, hyper. I feel like Bernay brown talks about it. you can end up falling into over vulnerability or oversharing to try and make a hyper connection with someone. And I think that it's okay to just let people be within whatever ring or circle of closeness they are to you. And, you know,
For some people. I know that they want a lot of people really close. And within that inner circle for me, I just need like one, maybe two people. And [00:36:00] I also think it's okay to be able to have a relationship or friendship. That is yeah, we get together and we just talk about painting. We talk about painting and none of the other emotional.
Pieces from my world, come with me. I just get to be a painter or I just get to be. somebody that works out or a runner or a. You know, whatever that is, wherever you're at in your world. It just gets to be about that. It doesn't have to be about anything else. Yeah, we really romanticized either within a significant other or best friend that they are going to fill all of your social and emotional needs.
And that's just so much pressure. We've talked about this before, and it's just so much expectation to put on one person. And it's like, okay, I wouldn't expect my partner to know every single thing about yoga and don't want to talk to me deeply about it or mental health stuff. And so that's why it's nice to have lots of different friends from different areas that when you're with them, you can nerd out on those kinds of things. No.
You don't [00:37:00] need it all from one or two people on, they don't need all of the other stuff that comes with it. That's just a place for that. And, and that also lets you just be that person right. That part of yourself that feels comfortable and good in that space. And it doesn't come with all the other pieces.
Yeah. Yep. Okay. so I feel like we've kind of chatted about what are the action steps to get you, to get you there. Reach out to people. I do the inner work. Do the inner work? Yup. Yup. Expectations to do the inner work around. And my feeling weird judgment or shame about this aspect of myself. How can I move through that?
And then, and then seek out safe spaces where you can show up and be you go for it. Yes. Uh, I love that. You can show up and be you. Yep. That's really important. And that's hard. It's hard to get used to if you're not used to doing that. okay. So. We're now popping into our, it takes two [00:38:00] sections. So we're going to be talking about what are the longterm impacts of loneliness and the benefits of building friendships and connection.
Well, I think one thing we know for sure is life expectancy of people that are lonely. Definitely. As less right. You You don't live as long, more health problems, higher rates of depression, anxiety. Yeah, you have a lower immune response. So you don't heal as quickly. Yeah. Yeah, so physically a lot of negative impacts of loneliness.
Yeah. And I know we've talked about this before, but there is that the aspect of like skin hunger. Of not being able to have those connections. And I think that, especially if you are. In a phase, whether it's a long-term or forever phase within your life of not having a romantic relationship, still recognizing that we are social beings. So having physical contact from other people. Whether that's like, you know, hugs or sitting near [00:39:00] them is still very important.
Absolutely. So. The benefits of longterm benefits of building friendships, I think is other than combating loneliness and, you know, being able to get all of the mental and physical health benefits. It really is like, Uh, way of feeling. Connected and being human and a part of. Uh, world, like it's nice to be needed. And it's nice to also have some other people who are there to support you and talk to you.
I also think about that.
I don't, I don't know. Maybe it's a broader cosmic perspective, but I really think about any conversation I have with anybody, regardless of what that is, whatever they share, whatever that moment is. I had something to me and to my life and builds me and built who I am. And maybe it's only a 32nd conversation. Maybe it's a 10 minute conversation. Maybe it's a 30 [00:40:00] year relationship.
But that brings something into me, which then I pass on to others. And there really is that great web of connection. That's woven through the community and humanity and life and nature and the universe. That's beautiful and missing out on that and not being a part of that, but being an outlier of that feels really sad to me.
Yeah. And to anybody that is experiencing that have deep sadness. and empathy around them. Yeah, there's some wonderful poetry that kind of talks about that. I was like, The people in your life that you don't. Talk to consistently every day, but you write your A's in the same way that they taught you.
Or you don't see them as often as you used to, but you still think about them every time on their birthday, or you still order the same thing from the restaurant that you guys used to go to. Like people do leave little imprints on you and this beautiful. Yeah, we carry them in our souls, carry them in our hearts and.
And I [00:41:00] think anybody that's not woven into the tapestry is a loss for the whole community.
Definitely. All right. Where onto our last little section, we're going to spin our wheel.
Got an odd, in what ways? hi. Friendships changed from pre to post adulthood.
Oh a lot for me. I was very outgoing child. Adolescents always had a lot of friends. I have. I'm kind of sandwiched in the middle of a sibling. That's a year old or an assembly. That's a year younger and they didn't really have a lot of friends. And I always did. We moved every year. And I made friends really easily. I always had a ton of friends within, I don't know, 10 minutes of being somewhere. I had friends or if we had the neighbor's granddaughter. In fact, I can think of several examples of that visiting. Um, they would send her my way because I would be frightened and they would have a friend for the day.
So it was always very, very friendly, had [00:42:00] lots of friendships, lots of groups of friends and. But then when we moved, definitely I'd let those go. Obviously in a world before, you know, social media and cell phones and connections. and as an adult, I don't have a wide circle of friendships. I going through my divorce, I actually had several friends, quite a group of friendships.
And it seems like all at the same time, those all dissolved for different reasons. Which created a lot of distance and pain, and I'm never rebuilt those. I've stayed very work friends and, kept it pretty much there. So, so I don't know if that's from, they take a lot of energy. And this is, as we, as I said earlier, being able to identify what an energy do I have to put into a friendship. And where does that fit into the.
The my, the world that I have, I would say I have a lot of acquaintances. I have a lot of people. I care about that I work with also with my work. longer-term friendships, the. As we've talked about Jenny and before. That we share an office with. I would [00:43:00] consider her a friend we've worked together for 11 years.
And I would consider her friend, but we don't hang out a lot outside of work. but yeah, I would say they've changed from having a big circle of friends to a small circle of friends from having really close, personal, emotional friends, to maybe having one more personal emotional friend and being a lot pickier with where I put my time and my energy.
That is important to me to really decide where this, where does that go? And I do think as you know, the matriarch of a family, right, that there is time spent with family and children. And as I've been growing that since I was 16, that's where most of the energy has been spent for the last 30 years.
It was really focused on those humans and the relationships that they need.
Yeah, that makes sense. All right. I will speak.
Oh, we got the same number. How funny? Okay. So in what ways have. The [00:44:00] least I've made friends change from pre to post adulthood. Um,
I don't know. I feel like. Making friends for me has. Gone through weird ebbs and flows in. Phases. So. I definitely can reflect back on. Times where making friends has been really, really hard and difficult. And then times where it feels like you're kind of pulled into a group. And then all of a sudden you have a whole group of friends, From when I was younger, that happened quite often. And I think I went through a lot of phases. As I was younger and I'm trying to, you know, Switch out of that, of being more closed off within friendships, but being open to listening and I was the. Person within the friendships that it was like people came to talk to me and I knew a lot about their internal world, but they did not know a lot about mine.
And, you [00:45:00] know, Now in my adult friendships, I'm trying really hard to let those barriers come down and try. And even that out. which has taken a lot of inner work and vulnerability, like we've been talking about. but I've stayed, I would say, uh, post adulthood, making friends, I'd spent a lot of like slowly getting to know people through activities and then eventually breaking out and getting to know them on a more personal level.
and also getting used to. People. Phasing in and out of your life. It's been really hard, like, uh, having close friendships. In adulthood and then me moving or they're moving, or like I said, like, are you said, Statuses within their lives have changed within relationships are not relationships.
We haven't gone through the kids' section yet, but I'm sure that's coming soon. And that is, has been hard for me to navigate and like allowing myself to let [00:46:00] things go if they need to be let go, or figuring out new ways of keeping those relationships alive. And allow them to change. But still keeping a little bit of that connection. So that's been interesting. I think I've also settled into recognizing.
Where I do want to set up more emotional boundaries and not put in. A crazy amount of time. Into so many people are so many friendships and just allowing it to be a smaller group. And then interacting with the other people. Like I said, allowing them to be more on those outer rings. As I was talking about before and just allowing that to be okay.
Absolutely. It's important. Yeah. All right. Rabbi fire. Do you have a question for me? I do we have our fourth women's retreat coming up this weekend. What's one thing you're looking forward to. Um, I am looking forward [00:47:00] to. The whole thing. So excited about it. geez, it's hard to narrow it down to just one.
I think I'm looking forward to hanging out with the group that we've, gathered in. I think it's going to be really fun. Group and we've restructured the way we're doing it this year of having a lot more. Artistic processing through things and I'm excited to see how those. Play out and excited to experience the process with them.
I love the hike that we do. I was actually thinking last night about, What I'm going to wear so that when I get to the top of the mountain, I can jump into the lake and swim around. Cause I think that. If the weather's nice enough last year, it was a little windy. So I was a little cold. I didn't want to, but I'm hoping this year,
It will be nice and hot. And then I can do a little top of the mountain lake swim and I'm excited for that. Yeah, that sounds amazing. Yeah. I love that question. Same for you. Hmm. [00:48:00] Well, since I designed the curriculum, I'm usually most excited about that, but I do feel like I've had a shift this year from the feeling of needing to like impart knowledge.
You know, get, give them the information or step them through to really a place of internal, personal processing and the beauty that is behind that. Definitely wanting it to be more of an experiential processes. Sensation experience, uh, which is why. I wanted to build in all of the more arts, more internal processing that.
You'll get into it, what you put into it, or, you know, Sorry to get out of it. What you put into it. And to see the beauty and the strength of women that they come together. It's fun to see women, that, I mean, really choose us and good to come share a weekend with us where we. really good to be vulnerable and experience that. And there's so much beauty and in the strength of women, when they gather.
Not just women, men too. John have a men's retreat. Definitely something we've talked about doing. But I'm, I'm excited for that [00:49:00] sisterhood and, and the being able to step back from being caretakers to. Being able to take care of ourselves. Yeah, definitely. I love being able to be a part of that support of saying, Hey, while you're here.
We're taking care of you. You don't have to take care of anyone else. You can just focus on yourself and trying to create a space of it not being catty right. Or gossipy. Cause I think. That can happen. In those spaces and really focusing on how do we give each other understanding and compassion and love in differences.
Yeah. There've been several moments where looking back on pasture treats, where. Those things have happened and it brings me. Immense amount of.
Ah, At, at women it's like watching where there, there could be a turn or a decision against something or, you know, something doesn't play out or things are going. I guess wrong without, for lack of a better word. Um, and being able to see them. really in [00:50:00] circle one another and be compassionate and.
It's really lovely to be able to see that. And I love when. I think we can all reflect back on a time. Speaking of friendships when we've gone to like a sleepover or, you know, something like that, where it's like, you felt. People talking about you or you felt judged or you felt on the outside. And I really feel like the first few times that we did this retreat, it was like a healing moment for that childhood parts for a lot of women, me included of like,
This is so nice. Like.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So I'm excited for that. Yeah. I agree. Maybe next episode will be a recap of what we gathered or learned from the women's retreat. And then after that, I think maybe we'll shift into more family work. We're going to be doing some, bringing a baby home, which is really a focus around.
parenting in early childhood and pregnancy and working [00:51:00] together as a couple. And to bring. families together instead of split families up over, uh, outing. And maybe talking about some blended family at the same time. Is that a such a challenge? Yeah. So things to look forward to talking about, does.
More parenting style things coming up. And yeah, I love that idea of doing a little recap of our women's retreat. Uh, if you're listening to this on the day, it comes out. the let's see, we got August 15th. This is the last day for you to sign up for this women's retreat. So if this sounds interesting to you, go check it out, sign up.
Come with us and we have a few more spots open. And we'd love to have you. Yep. We've got, I think, four more spots open, so closing it up, but yeah, very excited for the group of very amazing women that, that have chosen to join us for the weekend. Yeah. It's going to be awesome. All right, we will catch you in our next one. Yes. Bye. Bye.[00:52:00]
