Ep. 16 Moms Get Real- A candid conversation with local moms

Join us for a special conversation with a group of moms who are getting candid about their journeys. We dive into their biggest societal pet peeves, their top tips for other moms and parents, and some of their favorite memories from motherhood. These moms have wonderful perspectives to share and insights to learn from. We are so lucky to have them on the pod. I hope you enjoy this episode.

CW: Infertility

Look out for next week's episode with the Dads!

Needing some guidance on your unique parenting journey? Join us for our online program Bringing Baby Home. A parenting class for parents of children ages 0-3. This class brings a partner-focused team approach to parenting and teaches you how to work with your partner to create the best parenting experience for your child and your relationship. You can find out more information here. ⁠Bringing Baby Home Programs.⁠

---

Ep. 16 Moms Get Real- A candid conversation with local moms

Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to Untangling Relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a Gen Xer, and a millennial and a mother and daughter. Join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and Penny.

Penney: Welcome, and we have some special guests that are joining us today that we want to give a special welcome to.

And give them a minute to introduce themselves. Whoever wants to go first can just jump in. I can

Tina: go first since I've kind of done this before. , I'm Tina and as special guests, I guess we're moms. I didn't really say that. , So I am just re I guess I shouldn't say recently pregnant. I'm 22 weeks pregnant.

, so that's where I'm at on my parenting journey. And one word used to describe a motherhood. , that's really hard for me cause I wanted this for a long time, but as of right now, I'd say maybe magical,

Janae: cute. I love that. Awesome.[00:01:00]

McKenzie: I'm Mackenzie. , on my parenting journey, I have a 14 month old. So, , basically just a toddler right now. She's keeping me busy. And for one word to describe parenthood, I would probably say, , Unpredictable.

Unpredictable would be my word. Yeah.

Janae: Yeah, that makes sense.

McKenzie: Thanks. Thanks for

Janae: having me. Yeah, cool.

Heather: I'm Heather. I have, , a three nager. He's three, but he thinks he's a teenager. uh, one word that I would describe Parenthood, , rollercoaster.

Penney: So, a magical unpredictable rollercoaster that, uh, describes Parenthine.

Pretty succinctly, I love that. Yeah, that's awesome.

Janae: Very good. All right. So as Tina said, this is our motherhood, mother episode. , we're kind of doing a three part [00:02:00] series all around parenting. And so these are our moms and we're going to ask them some questions and get some tips from them. And hopefully we can normalize a little bit of a parenting journey and also share in some experiences.

, So our first question is, what emotional changes have you noticed since becoming a mom? , and again, if we want to, we can just go in the same order or we can popcorn around. It's totally up to you guys.

Penney: Yeah, maybe that order, then we're going in a birth order of babies, right? Youngest to oldest. Yeah, that works.

Tina: , okay. , so emotional changes around being a mom. , I, I don't know. I've just. Mostly just been super excited. , I think maybe since I've tried for a while and have wanted this for so long. And when I say so long, like, at 16 years old, I was [00:03:00] scheming of ways to get pregnant. I never did it, but, uh, definitely started scheming.

So I've wanted it for a really long time. , so, I always knew that I would love the baby, but just realizing, and I haven't even met her yet,

, how much of an emotional bond

that is. And I cry a lot when I think about it. So I guess that, , but mostly just super excited and loving all the steps, uh, except maybe being sick

Janae: all the time.

Yeah. The rough part of pregnancy. But riding the, the rollercoaster of hormone changes. It sounds like,

Tina: yeah, I don't even know. So much of it's the hormone changes versus just I don't know the excitement and the deep love that I already feel and Like I said, I haven't even met her yet. So just can't even imagine what that's gonna be like when she's here.

Janae: Mm hmm

McKenzie: Yeah, [00:04:00] so I would say

I feel like I haven't always been super emotional or like where I would like share a lot of those big feelings or or feel like I cry easily and I think, like, as a parent, it kinda, like, breaks you open a little bit, and so I definitely, , feel a lot more emotional now, having a kid, and I think that, like, you think about a lot of things in, in, that you didn't think of before, you know, when you have someone that You're caring for, and you're completely, you know, you're, you, you need to be there for that person.

So I feel like I definitely have much more, like, larger feelings than I did before I had, , Lily, so.

Janae: Yeah, it makes sense.

Penney: Definitely, that expansiveness of having more in your heart to pour out or an overflowing, and sorry Heather, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.

Heather: [00:05:00] You are just fine. I was just Gathering what I was going to say. I've been thinking about it. , Oh, you know, the emotions for me have always been kind of a rollercoaster.

, I always wanted to be a mom. , and it took me a really long time. It was like, , 10 years of fertility treatments before Evie. , and when we got pregnant, that was We were over the moon and so excited, and I found that as he kind of grew, it was different than what I thought it would be. , doctors and...

Other people who have babies, and sometimes your parents, they all tell you when your baby should be at a certain stage. So I found I had a lot of, , emotions kind of going through that, and like, grief, because a lot of people made me believe that Everest wasn't where he should be when he should be. And I had a lot of anxiety, and I was always worried that he wasn't where he should have been, and it was [00:06:00] really difficult because I tried so hard, and I wanted it to be perfect the whole way through.

, And sometimes I feel like I put a lot of pressure on myself and even him without even realizing it, trying to get that perfect journey. And I'm coming to the point where I realize that there's no such thing. So, I get emotional a lot about things, , but I'm finding I'm getting better about regulating that and not having the same expectations and realizing that, you know, he and I are on this unique journey together and it's not gonna look like anybody else's journey and

Janae: that's okay.

Mm hmm. Yeah, and probably an important thing that he can learn and you guys can learn because no one's life follows that trajectory that we think is going to be perfect. Like, I'm sure we've all felt that at some point or another, and so. Yeah, and that's a lot of... Patience and trusting for through the fertility [00:07:00] journey that it was like, you know, probably already feeling like not working or behind or not going as is quote unquote supposed to and then feeling that again with, , through the first three, three years with him.

That makes a lot of sense.

Tina: Yeah, I can definitely relate to that already. I know I haven't had mine yet, but just like, being that new, that new mom phase, like, you know, everything needs to be perfect, what all do I have to have, and doing that, like, rabbit hole of research, because you want to be the best mom possible, , has definitely thrown , some hiccups my way, and I can definitely feel and relate to that because it sucks and all the pressure and judgment, , behind moms.

I'm not looking forward to more

Penney: of that.

Janae: Yeah, there's definitely a perfect ideal of what. you're supposed to do and all the milestones that they're supposed to meet and or you're supposed to meet when you're growing them and all the stuff that it's like. I think those things are helpful to [00:08:00] have an idea of what's coming up but also not helpful in the fact that it's like, you know, those aren't always how things follow and it's okay that there's a little bit of differences.

Penney: One thing we do know about parenting is that showing up wholeheartedly and just doing the play and the fun and the love, , is the right way. There's no wrong way to do that when we're showing up just as we are, because we are what they need.

Just a little reminder. that we do know

Janae: that. Yeah, that's so true. I think about just from, obviously I'm not a parent and I haven't started that journey, but thinking back to my childhood, it's like the moments when there was that connection with parents was what created the best memories. And so, You know, you're not thinking about, Oh, was I behind on my reading?

Or was I, didn't, maybe I didn't walk when [00:09:00] I was supposed to or whatever. You don't have any memories of that. And, you know, it's okay that Like Penny said, like, just being there for them is, is a lot and a big job in and of itself.

Alright, so our next question is, What changes have you noticed in your role in your relationship, like within your partnership between you and your, , partner? Uh, what roles have you noticed or changes with that after becoming a mom?

Tina: I feel like our roles haven't changed a whole ton yet, , we're definitely talking about like, what it's gonna look like, , schedules, stuff like that, . But I feel like that's definitely one that maybe, uh, is going to hit harder once she's here and we're having to step into those roles more and I know it's going to have a relationship, impact on our relationship.

So talking about ways that we can still have us time and have a relationship is definitely something that's on the list that [00:10:00] we've been discussing.

Janae: Yeah, I'm sure the other moms here can give their, their two cents on how that goes once you're in that new

Penney: phase. Well, I also want to maybe just say I do think as soon as we And this is from a mom's perspective, not from a dad's perspective, so I'll caveat that. But I think we start to think about things a little differently, maybe a little sooner.

Because I think in some ways it feels really real to us, right? Because we're growing it and, and we're thinking about exercise and hip openers and labor and a plan and how we're eating and taking care of our bodies and, and we become very Inwardly, maybe absorbed in a way that we're creating a life. So that's where we're going to focus.

And, , I do know that that can create some distance in relationships as we become very inward focused to create a life. And sometimes that can change, , even in pregnancy, those relationships.[00:11:00]

Janae: Yeah, I could see how that would happen, of like, you're experiencing a huge change. Not like, not that they aren't experiencing change, but like, everything within your body and your... Hormones and your mental state and you know, everything is changing and that's a huge thing to be going through and I'm sure that's a hard thing I'm excited to talk to the dads about it of like how was it showing up for your partner when that was going on?

But also it's like how do you stay open to sharing as much of that as you can but also Knowing that they'll never really be able to fully get it Yeah,

Penney: and I think they get it in the ways that they can, but it's that, like, one twins of a muscle in your thinking, or how your body, like, every little change in your body that you're so inwardly focused.

Talk about that somatic experience of really being in your body. , happens during pregnancy because there's so much happening and we're really focused on all those changes and all those [00:12:00] differences. And I would say that's a remarkable thing about being pregnant is all the focus inward on our bodies and feeling sensations.

I don't know if I focus as much on hormones, but definitely on changes because it's going through so many changes.

Janae: Yeah, and navigating that. And also, that would be hard to be like, can we talk about something else that's, you know, not baby related or kid related? And you're like, well, every five seconds I'm getting feedback or things happening within me that I'm feeling.

So it's hard to switch your brain off of that. Yes,

Penney: that's a good description. I would say that was one definite difference I noticed in relationships.

McKenzie: Yeah, I think for

me, , and Johnny, it, we, I felt very, You know, close during the pregnancy, there are some things that are, you know, hard to, to explain or it's just your own, you know, unique experience that's happening that it's kind of hard to share that [00:13:00] as, as much as you'd like to, because it's, it's really fun and exciting at the same time, but I felt very supported and.

, taking care of, which was really important for me, so I felt very close throughout the pregnancy. I was really worried about, you know, changes in the relationship after having Lily, just because we'd been together at that point for six or so years. So we had a pretty like well established relationship and we had a lot of time for each other and then for ourselves individually and I like having that time to myself.

So, , I think that's kind of what I was worried about and I wanted to like have some control over that but Having a baby is just such a there's it does it like there's no there's nothing you can do I think it's gonna definitely change your relationship [00:14:00] Especially I mean when you have a newborn, it's just kind of it is a huge change Not that it isn't a great thing, but it is a huge change and for a while I think I was just kind of like focusing on survival and caring for The infant and trying to care for myself, and so you kind of, for me at least, kind of lose your relationship a little bit, and sometimes, like, at the beginning, we were, like, someone would take care of Lily at night, the other person would be taking care of them through the day, so you're kind of, like, passing, you know, passing each other, trying to take care of a new life, so.

It gets easier, you know, as you go along, and so I think we're more at that point now where we try to find some time for each other too, just for the two of us. , but yeah, I think your, your role definitely changes or your relationship changes. You have a lot more work to kind of split. And... , you just have a lot more [00:15:00] to balance.

There's, I mean, great things that you can do together with your, baby, like bonding together as a family, but bonding in a relationship is something I think you really have to put more focus in, at least for me,

Heather: than I did ever have to

McKenzie: before.

Janae: Yeah, that's a... That's a good way of putting it. That makes a lot of sense.

Penney: And a very typical experience. I think statistically 60 percent of people report a very similar experience to that, Mackenzie.

Heather: I know, , for us, our circumstances were a little different. We were going to the doctor, you know, and had to do all these tests and then, , there was a lot of, , Testing, we had to test when we were ovulating and then, you know, we'd have to wait so long and then test and see if we were pregnant. And so there was a lot of stuff that way.

And so the journey to get pregnant for us, , brought us really close. , I think because, you know, we'd always pick a time to do the [00:16:00] test and everything when we were both home, because getting the test back when it said negative was really, really, really hard and I needed the support. , of my husband when it came back negative, , because it almost felt like, it might sound kind of silly, but it almost felt like, you know, a death of hope when that would happen.

And I would be mourning that this time it didn't work. , when we found out we were pregnant, we were so ecstatic and we were so into the journey together. I remember I downloaded an app. That told me, like, every moment, like, what, what size my baby was, like, what development my baby was going through, like, I was so into knowing exactly what's, what was going on at any given moment.

And I really brought my husband in and tried to help him participate as, as much as possible. I made him read to the baby every night. Even before, like, from the moment we knew we were pregnant. I [00:17:00] had books and I was like, you will now read to my stomach. And he's like, okay. Um, and we did that the entire way through.

It was, , It brought us really close and then we had our baby in the pandemic. So that made it even harder because there was no, you know, it was really just us in the, in the delivery room. Joe's mom was able to be there, , and she was the only guest that we were allowed to have.

But, you know, it was so personal with just the two of us. And then, you know, we were all stuck together, you know, and we had to bond and, and figure our stuff out together. And, and that made it kind of, kind of hard in a lot of ways, because there wasn't no separation. , I, I didn't. I didn't have the opportunity to have the separation from my son for any period of time for the first two years.

Because, who do you trust, you know, to take care [00:18:00] of your baby and what if something happens or, , what if, , he contracts COVID, , is he going to be one of the ones that's at risk and there was just so much to it and so. We are just barely, now that he's three, actually doing some separation, , from each other.

, and, I guess taking care of each other in a different way. Kind of trying to find ourselves again. I feel like for the last two years we've we...

We haven't even taken an opportunity to step away. So it's been kind of hard cause now I think we're trying to figure out where our relationship is when we're not stuck together, , all the time and, , where Evie is not in the middle of it all. And so I think that's caused some problems for us, certainly.

, You know, trying to figure out who we are together again.

Penney: the struggle of having a [00:19:00] baby during the pandemic and the fear of that, , just giving honor to that and what we were going through as a nation and his families and his parents.

, I definitely didn't have little ones, but have my, I had my own fear, , that came up around that. And, It's super fun that that journey for you and your partner really brought that closeness and the beauty of sharing that together after a 10 year journey to come to the end together is amazing.

Mm hmm. Yeah,

Janae: I had similar thoughts of like Oh gosh, my heart goes out to every single parent who had to go through that experience during COVID, like, Ugh, sounds equally terrifying and also so hard, because it's like, you don't know, like Heather was saying, you don't know how, how are you supposed to make the right decision, like, How do you make those calls of yes, I will let some people come in and see him or but what if they're sick and you don't [00:20:00] know, I mean, I had similar things like that where I went to go see my partner's grandfather in the hospital and two days later, I was testing positive and thinking like I might have just killed him like he had pneumonia and I was like, Oh my God.

So it's terrifying. You don't know Whether you had it or not. And yeah, just scary. , but I'm sure it's kind of going to make an interesting transition or journey now that you are saying you're in the phase of like finding more separation, finding more time for yourselves. And , yeah, that'll be an interesting transition to work your way through and finally getting that coming back into somewhat of a normalcy, I guess.

Heather: Yeah. Maybe not coming back into normalcy, but, but redefining what normal is now. Because I don't think it'll ever go back to what it was before. It'll just be redefining what that is for

Penney: us. Also, no such thing as normal, [00:21:00] right? Normal is a setting on a washing machine. It's not something that happens in life, in relationships, in parenting.

No such thing. Just a cycle of a washing machine. Very good point. Uh, I also

Tina: have a thought on Heather's. So, my husband and I also went through some infertility stuff. Not nearly as long as Heather and Jo's. And, , so that I can't imagine how stressful that was. But we were starting down the road of like, Here, what test are we doing next?

What test is next? And I was actually scheduled for a test the Thursday before I found out I was pregnant. , but for me, I read online and it's like the best time to take pregnancy tests is first thing in the morning. So I would wake up. First thing in the morning, super, you know, tired cause I was still doing bus stuff.

So I was up at like five in the morning and taking pregnancy tests and getting that negative. And I really love how you said you would plan a different time of the day where you would have that. Or that was needed because there was a lot of like that just [00:22:00] ruined my whole day and trying to function afterwards was awful.

, so if anybody's going through that, , I highly recommend doing it how joan Heather did it because it was, yeah, I can't even imagine 10 years of that because the two years we went through was

Janae: awful.

Heather: Yeah. And I do just want to say that it doesn't matter how long, you know, infertility goes on. It is, it is hard no matter what state you're in, you know.

I mean, I feel for anyone that has to go through that for any period of time, it is a really hard thing to do.

McKenzie: I completely agree. It did not take, it took us probably, like, eight or so months. But I feel like there's just kind of, , they don't really tell you.

Like, what to expect when you're starting to try to have a family. But it is, yeah, it's really painful, and it caused a lot of stress in our relationship, too, during that time where we were actually trying. Because you just feel like, [00:23:00] I don't know, there might be something wrong. And it's just really, it's tough.

And then there's, you know, when you're trying to conceive, and you're like, Okay, we have to have, like, we have this time that we're trying, and this time that, like, that's the only time we have. And then... It's just this ending, like, never ending cycle of, like, did it happen? No, now we need to try it again. And it just takes a lot of the, it, for me, it took a lot of the connection out of it, and it just added a lot of stress.

And I just think that, like, maybe if things were communicated more clearly, people wouldn't have to, at least, at least you'd know what to expect a little bit better, I guess.

Penney: Yeah, I think that's an excellent thought. Sorry, Tina. I was just thinking there's so much information on use birth control. It only takes once, you know, that we get this idea that it's like one oops, and boom, there's a baby, which does happen.

Definitely in my [00:24:00] world on birth control, I still had babies that didn't have that experience, but yeah, thinking about all of the information out there, it doesn't prepare you for that part of the process that the three of you went through.

Tina: Yeah, , and talking with family. , like, well, aren't you guys trying?

Like, why aren't you pregnant yet? Like, there's just lots of negative things around it, because it is so easy for some people, but other people, it's a really big struggle. And I don't feel like there is a lot of information out there around that. And then, we were told that they wouldn't even start testing or doing anything until after we tried for a whole year.

Like, that's a whole year of 12 negative pregnancy tests. Like, that's

Heather: a lot. Mm hmm. It is and I don't know about the rest of you and I kind of feel like this is maybe a societal standard that's kind of been drilled into women, but every time a test came up negative it felt like a failure for me, like, like what's wrong with you that you cannot have a baby, like there's something wrong [00:25:00] with you, your function as a woman is to be able to, like if you take it down to the bare essentials of what a woman is, is to be able to carry a child and I'm not even...

Able to do that. And that was really, really hard for me because I felt like I was failing at like my basis, my, my, my most basic task as a woman.

Janae: Yeah. And that, betrayal or that pain of like, it's my body. Why is it my body that can't do it? And you know, why is it me that is wrong? And all of that, the mental criticism and fatigue and pain that you go through during that time.

Yeah. It's so hard.

Heather: A hundred percent.

Penney: So for all of our moms listening, listen to this excellent advice of these three moms about that process and give yourself so much grace and kindness and love that the journey will take the time the journey does.

Janae: Yeah, normalizing it. I think Like you were saying, Penny, we've gone so far to the fear side [00:26:00] of like protection, protection, protection, which, yes, birth control should be widely available and we should definitely be, uh, promoting more than just abstinence, but also understanding that it isn't like a instant boom, now you have a baby kind of a thing.

It's such a long process and I love that, you know, even Mackenzie, it's like maybe you don't identify with having an infertility journey, but it still took eight months Or nine months, like, and that should be normalized.

Tina: Well, and also, why can't we test hormones sooner? Like, why did it have to take a year before we could test sperm count?

And, you know, like, why can't we check to make sure all those things are working, and then be like, okay, give it a year, because it might take a while. Mm hmm. Because then that's a year of trying, and knowing that something might be broken, but you don't know, and they're not going to test for it.

Janae: Yeah, that's frustrating.

So

Tina: changes in healthcare system would also be awesome around that, but we don't

Penney: have that power. [00:27:00] So

Heather: It definitely would because I went to a lot of fertility clinics and they are not all built the same just because they have fertility Clinic in their name does not mean that they know anything of what they're doing , I had to read a lot of reviews until I found a fertility clinic that really knew what they were doing and were testing for things like I had never had anyone test my fallopian tubes in like nine years of trying to get pregnant and that last year of infertility, they checked it.

They were like, well, let's find out exactly what's going on with reproductive system like as a whole. So for anyone who may be going through that journey, make sure that you really do your research because just because somebody claims to be a fertility clinic doesn't mean that they really know what they're doing.

And as women, it's our job to advocate for ourselves in the healthcare system because I feel like it's really easy for, for doctors to kind of blow us off. And be like, Oh, you're just overthinking it or, Oh, you [00:28:00] know, if you would just give it more time, you're just being emotional about it. And so, I think as women, we have to advocate for ourselves a lot more than maybe some of our male counterparts do.

Janae: you should be able to go in and trust that they're going to take care of you because they're doctors and you should be able to have that trust. But I do think that just for my own healthcare journey in and of itself, that trust isn't always placed well, or, or it would be great to be able to just do that.

But I do think like Heather is saying, having your own, understanding of what is going on or your own, doing your own research is very powerful and helpful. It sucks that you have to do that, but it is, it's good to know that you can have your own back, I guess.

Heather: Yes, it is okay, because most of my fertility doctors were men, it is okay to tell a well educated man that he's wrong.

It is okay to advocate for yourself and be like, I'm sorry, you're not in my body. You don't know what's going on, [00:29:00] and just because this is what you think is going on doesn't make you right.

Janae: Yeah, I love that. Everyone should have practice with telling well educated white men. I think you're wrong.

Penney: I go the other direction probably that I get a lot of flack for, but I have, I have my doctor well trained on the amount of time I'm willing to wait, that I'm willing to leave if I am unhappy, and, , this is what my expectations are. So, I agree, I think advocating for ourself. And beautiful.

And I was just thinking the, the advice I hear the most around this is, well, you just need to relax. If you relax, it would happen naturally. I think that advice comes up a lot, a lot of eye rolls and looks and, uh, I think just the idea of that this is a huge life choice and life journey and I'm feeling so much shame or worry in my body, but you want me just to [00:30:00] relax.

Great advice.

Janae: It's like telling anyone who's upset, just take deep breaths and calm down. I'm like, no, that's not helpful.

Heather: I hated hearing that. The two things I hated hearing the most during my infertility journey were first, if you just relax and stop worrying about it, it would happen for you. And second, From, from new moms who maybe didn't have to do the journey I did.

You know, I'm so blessed that God trusted me. That one used to drive me absolutely crazy because,

Janae: if somebody had said that

Tina: to me, I think I would have punched them. Like, that is

Janae: awful. Yeah.

Penney: Wow. Yeah. Agree.

Heather: Terrible. Well, I think she, I think she meant it from a, she was just saying that she was so grateful, but maybe not in the best way. She really didn't think about it before.

I

Penney: don't think any of us can justify what she said. I just don't think that was okay.

Janae: Yeah, that's really painful to hear. So sorry. [00:31:00] So there you go. If you're listening to this, don't, don't say that to anyone. Just don't say those things to anyone.

Penney: And if you do,

Tina: expect to be punched because that brought up lots of instincts.

Penney: Alright, should we move on to our next question?

Janae: Yeah. All right. So how are you taking care of yourself as a mom?

Tina: Oh, I feel like

Janae: this is a hard question. Big breath.

Penney: So...

Tina: I've been struggling with some other health stuff. I have Crohn's disease on top of being pregnant. So this has been a real struggle for me because my Crohn's has not agreed with being pregnant and has flared up its ugly head multiple times.

So I've had to change my diet a lot, about a couple weeks ago I had to go on like a straight liquid diet. And I'm at the phase where they're like, you need to be gaining a pound of weight a week and you can't do that on a liquid diet. It just doesn't happen. , [00:32:00] so trying to find that balance of like making sure that baby and I have enough food, , while also not hurting and being in immense pain, because that was really scary, I didn't know, , how that was affecting her.

, and so really, I think I've reached out and gotten a lot of support, , from my amazing family around that. And

Janae: luckily,

Tina: they all happened to like, just randomly show up that day because Janae was moving. , so I had lots of family support around when I was going through that really scary moment. , so for me not being afraid.

To reach out to others for help and also letting go of that. You know, the, you have to gain a pound, you, you do, but also you have to be able to take care of yourself. , so trying to find healthy ways to eat, , has definitely been part of that, taking care of myself

Janae: aspect.

Penney: So it sounds like a big part for you, Tina is self compassion, right?

That doing the best I can, giving yourself love and [00:33:00] understanding and reaching out for support.

Heather: Yeah.

McKenzie: For me, , it, it's just, I think, I've always liked to, you know, like, take certain time to myself, , it's really recharging for me, and it does get harder when you have, , a toddler running around, , it's just trying to get that extra Yeah, okay. time. It's just there's, there's not much time. So I do try when I can to get up a little bit earlier and be able to have some time like reading or something like that before I get into work.

That helps me set the day off better, but also sometimes you're, you're up with a baby and so you can't do that. But I'll try to take some time maybe like after work, me and Johnny Work together to try to give each other that, that space to be able [00:34:00] to do something for yourself. . So it's really just trying to, to work with my partner and find those little bits of time that, that we can give ourselves so that we can, you know, be better parents and be better partners.

I

Penney: love that, uh, trying to squeeze it in wherever you can, kind of feeling, get up early and, and then working together as a couple to be able to give each other that and the understanding that you need that. That time to take care of yourself, which is really hard when you have a one year old, when you have a toddler, that is a really difficult time.

They're very demanding.

McKenzie: Yes, they are.

Heather: I think for me, I had a really long, , bout of, , postpartum depression, so I didn't do a lot of self care in the beginning. , I was really focused on kind of trying to survive being a mother in the beginning. , I've only really started trying to do more self care for myself and kind of step away from [00:35:00] that more.

, I got my first haircut, like, forever, a couple weeks ago. I think two years. , and , I did my own nails the other day. I pampered myself. I gave myself a minute. I will schedule time. , for myself, where my son is at daycare, , because I work full time, I'm a full time working mom, and that's okay.

, so I will schedule a time when he is, you know, at daycare and having fun with his friends and he's safe for me to have time alone to do what I need for me, whatever that may be. Maybe it's reading a book. Maybe it's, doing my nails. ... Or maybe it's hanging out with friends. Whatever it might be, I've been trying to schedule that for myself more.

, because I haven't done that in the past. And so, I've, I've really been trying to make myself a priority. And that is really hard to do when the most important person is just a little teeny tiny terrorist that just takes over your life. [00:36:00]

Janae: Yeah. Yeah. I love that, though. I think the first step is just being more conscious of it and slowly trying.

And like, both you and Mackenzie said, sometimes it doesn't work out and sometimes you end up having to take care of them, you know, or being there and having to cut your time a little bit shorter. But, I think it all starts with just that awareness of, Okay, I'm also important. It's okay for me to also be important and to take care of myself.

It's a very cliched and used a lot, but that phrase of like, you can't pour from an empty cup so you have to fill yourself up, , so that you can be there for your little ones.

Penney: I do just want to honor how difficult that is to take time for you when this is the the most important thing that you do every day.

And it's really hard to say, well, I'm important too. That's such a hard thing as a mom and not something we always have permission [00:37:00] around either societally or within families or, within different cultures within society. And, and I love that we have more of a voice now, and hopefully we can continue to have a voice about the importance of taking care of ourselves and being able to get haircuts and, and Pamper yourself, even if it's not pampering, just, I think, just being able to be human outside of being a mom.

Mm hmm. That we're still people too when we lose that sometimes.

Heather: I think so. And, one struggle for me is my son doesn't fit into a mold. He is... He is this wild, crazy, you know, he's gonna do what he's gonna do kid and I have found that sometimes he can be very frustrating for me, but I find that when I take time for me and I give myself What I need first, I'm a better mom to him, and I am able to take a step back and recognize that, you know, he is his own very unique person, and that it is [00:38:00] okay for me to let him, be as wild and as crazy as he needs within, an appropriate and safe, set of boundaries.

So, I, I do better when I take care of me.

Janae: Yeah.

Penney: Absolutely, and to every mom out there, taking care of you is important. So important.

Janae: Okay, we're moving into our tips section. So, , we'll get to dive in and get some good tips from all of you. , so if there's any new moms or upcoming moms or parents listening, they can get some insight.

, so our first tip is if you could go back to the day you found out you would be a mom, what advice would you give yourself? , for me,

Tina: , not so much research around what you need to do as a mom and learning how to trust my inner intuition and instincts, , because I feel like we already know. , and I'm getting to that point.

I did a lot of research around [00:39:00] like, what's the best crib? What's the best this? What's the best that? I need to have this. And, , lots of stress on myself to have everything perfect. And then, like, taking that step back and being like, you know, maybe I don't need all this and I, I know what I need to do.

And trusting that.

Janae: Yeah, that's good advice. I love that.

McKenzie: Yeah, I think mine is very, very similar to Tina's. , I, I'm definitely someone who is a little bit of an overthinker and also feels like an extreme need to be prepared. And so when I was pregnant, I think me and Google were like, so close together. I was constantly just like, what do I need?

What should I be doing? , what should I be eating? What exercise should I be doing? What, you know, yeah, what, what are all the items I need? And, and I understand why I did that, because it, it helped with a lot of anxiety and just the, the [00:40:00] fear of the unknown. So I don't know if I would tell myself to not have done that, but if I were going to go forward into another pregnancy, I would want to try to be in tune with myself a little bit more and not need so much.

, outside opinion, you know, from the internet. I think that we can trust our intuitions and our bodies a lot more than we think we can. So I think that's what I would try moving forward.

Janae: Yeah, I love that.

Heather: I, I think that's, I think that pretty much nails it on the head. , you know, we, we just started another fertility journey.

We're trying to have another baby. And I'm already thinking about what I want to do going into this. , and I know that for me, I, I'm already telling myself, you know, you need to enjoy this journey more and stop worrying so much because I was very panicked. , that something was going to go wrong and I was going to somehow lose my baby.

, and, you know, I had [00:41:00] an expectation of what birth was going to look like. I had read all of these books. , and I had high expectations on what birth was going to look like. For me, and it definitely didn't turn out that way, and so I would just go into it, , definitely with more expectation of we are definitely going to roll with this more, , and enjoy the journey instead of having expectations for it.

Hmm.

Penney: Definitely is making me grateful I had babies before the time of Google.

That ages me a little bit, but I am an overthinker also. And I'll bet I would've, I mean, I checked out books from the library, but I had to make a trip to the library. I couldn't just like 2:00 AM doom, scroll the worries away, not an option. And there were so much fewer things. I look at the list of things and uh, we didn't even have pack in plays and, and swings.

Were just like wind up simple things. And I just think the journey for the three of you and the amount of information is. [00:42:00] It's on such a different level that I can have so much empathy for and happiness that I didn't have to go through that, , but hard, hard of all of the choices, , decision fatigue when I think about that, or I look at the list, I'm like, wow, that's a lot.

Janae: Mm hmm. Yeah. It's a blessing and a curse. Right? Like. Information is power, but also too much information can not be helpful. Or just too many opinions, right? When you Google something, it's not like you get one article to read. It's like 10 billion and everyone has their own opinion on what you're supposed to do and what's supposed to be happening.

And yeah, that's a lot of information to take in. Alright, so our next tip is, What's one tip you would pass on to other moms?

Tina: so, listen to yourself and don't worry so much about the milestones. I had lots of people, well, have you felt or moved yet? Have you felt or moved yet? How come you haven't felt or moved yet?[00:43:00]

And I just hadn't, or I thought maybe I had, but you don't know because I've never experienced this before, so ignore the milestones and, , trust your intuition.

Janae: Nice, I like that.

Penney: Love that. Intuition is powerful. Something I strongly believe in.

McKenzie: Yeah, some advice that was given to me that I have really held on to is that basically, you know, with a baby and I mean, life in general, everything is a phase.

And so you like, there's going to be challenges in every phase and there's also going to be things that you really like. And so for me, , having a newborn was challenging. It was such a big shake up to my. My life, but I just tried to remember that like the days where it's really hard to get them to sleep Or you know, you're you're really struggling those that's gonna change into something else and so I've really tried to be as present as [00:44:00] possible and In the phases as I can be just because I know that even though parts of it are hard like there's things that I'm gonna miss in in that phase and so I've tried to be like very very present and Enjoy the enjoy it as much as I can too.

Heather: Yeah, that is

Janae: good. I like that.

Heather: I think my biggest tip as someone who's gone through the , the newborn phase into the toddler stage and straight into three majors is , I would Take all of the advice that you're given by You know healthcare professionals and everything. Not as gospel.

I felt like I put way too much stock into what my pediatrician thought about my son's milestones. , and I wish I would have followed what I thought or my intuition at the time, which was that my son was just a late bloomer. He did things in his own time. , but, you know, my doctor kind [00:45:00] of was pressuring me to have him tested for like autism and all these other things, , because he just walked late.

, later than other kids, and he really was just a late bloomer. He's fine. He's on schedule for everything else, and I wish I could go back and just nod my head at the pediatrician and go, okay, well, I'm glad that's what you think, but he's okay. Mm

Janae: hmm. Yeah, we have good experience with that. We have a late bloomer in our family, too.

She's about two years behind on everyone else. So, people like that exist, and it's okay. Like Fenny was saying, normal is the setting on your washing machine. There is no late or early bloomers. We're all just blooming in our own time.

Heather: It's true. And it's important to remember that everything in the medical field, you know, it's a medical practice because it's practice.

They don't know everything. They're still learning and they're still practicing. So I mean, they have data that they think suggests where somebody should be, but that doesn't make it possible.

Janae: Yeah, I [00:46:00] think that's with any field like we're always learning and growing and new research will come out and I was Listening to the conversations that we were having last weekend as a family where everyone was talking about, um, they were wanting their babies to sleep all on their sides, and then they were wanting the babies to sleep on their back.

And, you know, that changed so much just over the few years that mom was raising us. And, like, same with Google. It's a blessing and a curse. We love that the healthcare providers are giving us the information that they have, and they can give us advice, but taking it as advice. Like, it's okay to take or leave what you need and don't need.

So, yeah. All right. We are on to our last tip. So, what are your top two ways of regulating your emotions as a mom? If anyone needs more description on what that means. Let me know. But, uh, Tina, go ahead and take it away.

Tina: I don't know if I'm [00:47:00] necessarily I wouldn't say I regulate my emotions, because I definitely think you have to feel them.

You can't, the longer you bottle them up, the worse they're gonna explode. , at least for me. So, if I'm not in a space where I can have those emotions, , getting to a space where I can have them safely, , Letting the emotional wave ride, , and taking time for that, and then also acknowledging, Okay, we've had our time, like, now what's the next step?

How do we move on from here? , would probably be my advice, just cause I definitely notice with me, if I bottle up my emotions, they come out ten times worse.

Janae: Yeah, I guess a switch of the phrasing there of like, I guess regulating your emotions or coming back to self regulation as you're moving through everything that's going on with parenting.

McKenzie: I would say for me, when I'm starting to just feel that, , overwhelm or, you [00:48:00] know, big emotions as, you know, when you, when you have, I mean, having a baby is just, it's a lot. And so I think sometimes. When it gets to that point, just stepping away is usually good for me, like asking for some time to take for myself, either just to like chill out for a moment and watch a good show on Netflix or like step outside and read or go for a walk or something, usually that's good for me, just taking that time away just for, even for, you know, half an hour or so can help me feel better.

Like, I'm more capable of, of stepping back in and, and being a, you know, caregiver again. So. Mm

Janae: hmm. That makes sense. We know from our nervous system things that usually that takes about 20 minutes. So you're right on track with that.

Penney: Time for 20 minutes to reset. I [00:49:00] always said a parent timeout is very powerful.

, I would put myself on timeout all the

Janae: time. Yeah, that's a very funny thing. I've said that, , to Brooklyn before my, , partner and I'm like, I'm going on timeout. I'm not allowed to be around people right now. Like, I'm, I'm not safe. I'm not

Penney: fit for human consumption. I'm taking time out. Yes. Yeah.

Heather: I think it's definitely, , that's definitely what I do.

I do parent timeouts. , my son is very, very headstrong and he has an idea of how everything should be. And sometimes that's really hard. to negotiate with a toddler. , and I say negotiate, like I got in a fight with somebody because I'm not supposed to negotiate. I'm supposed to like lay down the laws, what somebody told me, but that's not my parenting style.

So when I'm negotiating a situation with my son, I find it's best that I step away. , and I give myself a timeout because there's a reason that he has something in his head. And most of the time it's because I'm not [00:50:00] understanding. And so if I take a step away and I self regulate myself for a minute and I come back, , I usually can go up on what it is he's actually trying to tell me and what he's trying to convey to me.

, so, that would be my suggestion.

Penney: Yeah, I used to say if we ever truly want to negotiate world peace, you need to send in parents of a toddler. Because really, if you can negotiate with a two year old, three year old, you can negotiate world peace. Because that is what it's about. It is a lot of negotiation and, uh, understanding and compromise and, so yes, that's what I would say.

I could negotiate world peace. I had three toddlers at one time and believe me, it was a lot of negotiation.

Janae: I also love that you pointed out that you have to find that understanding. before, especially as you said, like he's very headstrong. So laying down the law is just going to cause even more head butting.

Like that's not really going to be helpful. So I love that you're like, I don't need that advice. Thank you. I, I think it's, it's better [00:51:00] to say, okay, what am I missing here? They're obviously trying to communicate something. They're communicating a need. I'm just missing it. Um, so yeah, I love that.

Heather: I, I agree.

I think it's really important because I think that's something That maybe has been missed in the past, , you know, a conversation that, that my sister and I have had before is that sometimes we feel like the older generations forget that, that Toddlers are people, they're little people, they have needs, they have wants, they're trying to convey those to you, and instead of training them to do as they're told, maybe it's best that we validate them and figure out what it is that they need.

That doesn't mean don't give them boundaries. It just means treat them like a

Penney: person. They are definitely little people with our own personalities and their own views and their own likes and dislikes around texture and food and situations and noise level and what they can tolerate and what they can't.

And I definitely think that gentle parenting of understanding [00:52:00] is powerful and creates a space for them to be able to advocate for themselves throughout their entire life.

Janae: Mm hmm. Yeah, I was watching a really interesting video of the woman explaining, like, the past perspective around respect is really just authority and obedience.

And it's like, how do you actually respect someone? You're kind to them, and you treat them how, the way you would want to be treated. It has nothing to do with compliance or, you know, obedience. So, it's very interesting, I think, moving through each generation and trying to take And I think our first or second episode, Penny and I were talking about this of like taking what you can from the past people in your life or past traditions and bringing in what you actually need and what's helpful, but understanding that you're also raising a kid in a completely different era, a completely different time period with a lot of differences It's okay that you're going to need different things, or you're going to do it differently.

Penney: And you're [00:53:00] raising a different human. I can tell you from everyone of mine, I was not raising the same child that needed the same thing, that parenting worked the same way. It still doesn't, , as they're adults. They all need something different, and we have to show up differently for them in the way that they need us.

Janae: All right, so we're coming into our, it takes two questions, this is basically just talking about how we're influenced by others or society. , so, we've touched on this a little bit, so it'll be interesting to hear everyone's opinion of what is your number one societal pet peeve around motherhood?

Tina: The fact that you have to do it right, , and everybody, especially I think with like social media, everybody likes to show their perfect days or, you know, the perfect moment, , and

Janae: feeling the need

Tina: to compare yourself to that. , so [00:54:00] yeah, I guess the perfect mom stigma is definitely one for

Janae: me.

Yeah, that's heavy.

McKenzie: Yeah, I would say the, the kind of like idea that we can just do it all and that's something that's easy to do. I am, you know, I'm a full time working mom and I enjoy that. And then Lily is in daycare during the day, which I'm glad that we can do, but it

Heather: just feels

McKenzie: like like childcare is so expensive.

It's like almost a luxury at this point. , and so it just feels, I don't know, like society is kind of like, you can do it, you can do it all, but it's like, can you really though, because I think some people can't, probably can't make the, you know, can't do child care because it's so expensive, or, and also can't afford to quit their jobs because they have to have homes, and be able to take care of their kids, [00:55:00] so I just think that like, the idea that we can do it all, or that we should have to do it all is, It's one of my big pet peeves.

I think something I didn't realize until I became a mom is just the, I think, lack of overall support. And also, you know, we, we glorify motherhood, but we don't actually support moms in the way that I think we should

Heather: as a

Janae: society.

Yeah, I think we see that every time there's a mom who leaves a grocery store or a restaurant embarrassed because their kid is making noise and it's like, Moms and parents can exist with kids out in the world and it's okay, like, we can make space for them and, you know, you don't have to run away or be ashamed just because you have a kid, like, I look at that and it just makes me really sad if, you're right, we aren't.

Supporting them. There's a lot of expectations and there's a lot of glorifying what motherhood is, but also where's all the [00:56:00] support, the support that you need.

Penney: Yeah. I had the most amazing mentor, , that taught me that when I had, , toddlers and. I was at a grocery store with her one time and there was a toddler throwing a tantrum and she went over and just patted the mom and said we've all been through it.

It's okay just to let it happen. And, and then she would take a guard post and sat next to the mom. And if comments were made or things were said, she would like to layer them down. It was amazingly powerful thing for me to see, , and had my own experience. that. We were at temple square, I had my three little ones, and I think Jenae was probably two, maybe three.

She might've been three. You know, that teenager. She said I had three major. Is that what you said? Heather? Yeah. Somewhere in that phase. And she was so angry that she didn't get to stand on a certain place in the temple and we had moved on and she was in the middle of this building that had just been built and everybody was touring it and it was packed and by the Christmas tree throwing an all out tantrum.

And [00:57:00] she just said, take the other two kids and go. Her and I will be fine and we were on like the third floor of the building heading up to the roof and I could still hear her screaming and I remember the shame in my body of, I cannot believe I'm just walking away from this and when I came down, everything was settled and she's like, we're fine.

Kids throw tantrums. Kids get dysregulated. They need moments too. And everybody else here can tolerate that and understand that kids have emotions. She was such an amazing mentor for me and such a powerful lesson that I wish we could all give every mom in those moments when they just need someone be the army with them.

I'll stand with you while your child tantrums and I will glare everybody down because it's going to happen. And it doesn't mean you're being a bad mom. In fact, in this moment, you're being amazing mom because we're letting them do their thing. And. Maybe learn about boundaries and learn about emotions and that it's okay to have them.

And that was such a powerful lesson for me that she taught me that, , hopefully, , we can continue to pass on. Yeah.

Tina: So I had a experience [00:58:00] in the store the other day, , where a mom was hash, , shoot, the toddler was two or three and she was like, it's nap time. And she was like trying to check out the father was, you know, having all those emotions.

And part of me really wanted to, like, step in and help, but not knowing where that boundary is with that mom or, like, you could see that there was lots of shame and she was, like, trying to get out of there and all this stuff, and I'm like, But sometimes if you step in and talk with the toddler, that makes things worse, but sometimes it helps, or, like, I don't know, being, going into that, you know, soon to be at that phase, I just, I'm curious where you two have that.

Would you want help stepping it, or what would that look like?

Heather: Um, you know, I recently took Evie... We went out to breakfast one day. Um, and Everest would not sit still. He would not. He was screaming. He was jumping on the seats. He was [00:59:00] doing everything he shouldn't have been doing. , and I had this older couple sitting next to me and this lady looks across at me and she's like, I just love him.

And I just want you to know that we know what it's like to have a little person and that he's not bothering us at all. And. That was a really reassuring moment for me. I felt like it was one woman basically saying to another it's okay, and I think as women It's so powerful when we can step in for each other and just be like it's okay And I think we live in a society where we're always so worried about you know whether what we're going to do or say is appropriate and Sometimes I wish we would be a little less guarded and just let each other know that it's okay

Penney: Yeah, so me

Tina: and the cashier, we definitely like, we're like, it's totally fine.

Like we understand, but it still just didn't feel like, like you could still feel her anxiety and her shame around that and wishing that there was something more that could be done. [01:00:00] And maybe that's just as a society, we slowly need to change and there's not more I can do as a human. It just. Cause I'm like, I'm going to be

Penney: there in like two, three

Janae: years.

Heather: Yeah, right. Well, it's definitely the generation of me, right? Like everything you see on social media is look what I'm doing and look what, well, look at what we're doing now. And so people, sometimes I feel like our society has become very kind of self absorbed. and so it, it can feel a little, it can, it can feel a little scary, especially when you're hearing stories about.

You know, family gets asked to leave restaurant because toddler is acting out or mother asked to get off plane because baby is crying. Sometimes I feel like our society feels very selfish. And so I think that because of these headlines we see as moms, it's almost like an instinct to be anxious now. We don't want to inconvenience the people around us.

But I mean the reality is is that [01:01:00] you know, our toddlers are gonna do things. They're gonna have tantrums. They're gonna do things like that and I think there does need to be a societal shift where it's less about the me and more about the, you know, let's give everyone around us grace. Mm

Janae: hmm. Yeah, well said.

Mackenzie, any pet peeves you want to bring up?

Penney: Well, she was the last one to say that was her pet peeve we were just talking about.

Janae: Oh,

Penney: sorry. I did want to say one more thing to that, Mackenzie, of just thinking about, I also think there's that feeling that we do have to do it by ourself, right? If my toddler is tantruming, is it okay for me to have help or accept help and just realizing that we can't do it all ourself?

We do need support from other moms and from other people and... , hopefully we can have space for that and realize that that doesn't make us bad

Janae: moms. Yeah. Yeah, you get stronger. You need community. We know [01:02:00] that just from humanity in general, we work better in communities. Alright, sorry, I got lost. Heather, is there any pet peeves you, uh, want to shout out?

Heather: You know, , when we say societal pet peeve, you know, I'm thinking more of the society, kind of, that I'm in, because really the United States is made up of many, , and in the community that I live in, there's definitely, , a feeling of being the perfect mom, you see it, the mom who Goes to church every Sunday and makes dinner every night and always looks put together and has done her makeup and is on top of everything and her kids are in every activity and she's on the PTA and, you know, that's kind of what, you know, a normal mom would look like, you know, I guess for my society.

I wish that we would normalize that moms look all [01:03:00] different ways, they do all different kinds of things, that they support their kids in all different kinds of ways, , and that that's okay.

Janae: Yeah, definitely. More normalization of the mess, less of the perfect veneer on the outside, for sure.

Heather: Yes, because a lot of my family is very much well in...

To that part of society where everything is perfect and everything looks perfect on the outside, you know, and sometimes I just wish that we would be honest about how we are all the way around, that everything doesn't have to look perfect, that, that, you know, we can be honest and we can say being a mom is messy, that your house is never going to look clean until the day that kid moves out.

Janae: So

Penney: true. Yeah. I want to honor that. Not even, , that it's going to look messy. It's going to look like a process and it's beautiful. It's a, it's a beautiful process of ups and [01:04:00] downs. Like you guys said, a magical, like roller coaster, you know, difficult roller coaster of what that looks like to have it be everywhere.

And if it was perfect, it'd be incredibly boring. I'm not too much into perfect. I think that's, I have to mess things up if it gets too perfect and blow up the world, because that's boring. So, being able to accept it for the process that it is in every stage and have grace around that. I think there's a lot of power in that, Heather.

And for moms and, and being able to support each other in that in society. Mm

Janae: hmm. Definitely. Okay, so, we're on to our spin the wheel, obviously this is a remote recording, everyone's from different spots and, and places, so we won't be spinning, but, um, if everyone wants to pick either, uh, a number one through ten, and then whether it's odd or even, you'll get a different question.

So, Tina, what's your number? Uh, eight. I feel like you should know that. Well, I [01:05:00] didn't want to assume. So, my number's even. Ten. Ten. Okay, so, what is one way you are offering your body kindness in its changes?

Tina: Uh, self acceptance, and then, , I do yoga twice a week with Janae, actually. , and that has been amazing.

, and also... I guess a learning curve because my body doesn't do things that it used to do or

Penney: We were doing something where we had to

Tina: like jump

Penney: up to the top of the mat and I am getting a belly and I

Tina: Totally like need myself and my baby in the belly not realizing

Penney: that my body has changed so doing yoga and Moving my body in that way,

Tina: and also giving myself grace around that things are changing and they're not how they were

Penney: a couple months ago.

Janae: Yeah, well, everything's changing so rapidly during pregnancy that that's hard to keep track. Yeah, so,

Penney: it [01:06:00] hurt. It was not

McKenzie: fun.

I feel like I'm gonna pick... An odd number just to see what the other one is. So,

Penney: odd.

Janae: That's good. Um, okay, so How are you coping with the changes in your body that has come from being a mom? Yeah,

McKenzie: so there are a lot of changes over postpartum.

And then just like your body. Yeah, trying to regulate again. , so it's, it's, it's definitely a ride. , for pregnancy with me, I think I was really close to my body. It was really cool to see. So, I mean, for one, you're, you're connecting with a baby too, which is really exciting. And so I felt really close to my body in a way I haven't ever felt like.

, I've been, like, in a [01:07:00] larger body. And, so it was really cool to be able to connect with my, my stomach, my belly. Because a lot of the times, you're like, that's the part you're trying to disconnect from, if you have a belly. , so, that was a really cool thing for me. And then, after postpartum, it was kind of like, Oh, there's no more, there's like, not a baby in here anymore.

So that was kind of, , Of relearning because I feel like during pregnancy, I was able to offer a lot of like love and support to my body because it was growing a human and, you know, I was connecting with someone that I already loved in there and I could like feel them moving around and then postpartum is like, you're,

Heather: you're kind of like in pain, you're

McKenzie: growing like back to To normal.

And so that, that's definitely, that was a challenge for me getting used to my, my body after [01:08:00] pregnancy and just relearning my body again. Now I feel pretty, pretty much back to normal or back to what I was feeling before I was pregnant. and so that's good too. But yeah, it's. It's a lot, I think, that whole journey.

Janae: Yeah, that's so interesting. I love that you brought up, like, the, the switch that happens of like, I can give my body kindness because there's someone in there that I love, and it's carrying a human, but also, how do we get to that point post baby of like, this body is still someone that I love, and still someone that's carrying someone through life, but it, but it's you, and how do you keep that same kind of compassion?

That's so interesting.

Alright, Heather. Are you an even or an odd?

Heather: my number would be seven, so I'm an odd.

Janae: Okay. Perfect. So same question. How are you coping with the changes [01:09:00] in your body that have come from being a mom?

Heather: I think one really important thing that I'm working on for myself is body neutrality. So, not seeing my body as good or bad because of how it looks, but it's more like Just part of who I am overall, , you know, which is it, body neutrality is something that is really hard to achieve because we are very critical, we live in a society that is very...

Sorry, it's nap time, you can hear that, huh?

Janae: Okay,

Penney: no worries. It's okay, we're moms, we're not having shame around having littles, right? Right.

Heather: Um, I, I just want to honor my body for what it does for me and just recognize that it's one part of me as a whole, , love it for what it can do for me, you know, that it, it helps me to see and interact with the world.

It helps me to be a part, , [01:10:00] of, you know, communities and families, , and, and not, not get down on myself because maybe it doesn't look how I want it to look. , and maybe it won't ever and, and that's okay because it's my body and it's my way that I connect with the world. And so, , that's just where I am and I'm on a journey of body neutrality.

I haven't gotten there yet. I will let you know if it ever happens, but it's my journey right now.

Janae: That's awesome. Well, if it's a journey, that means it's never ending. The journey always keeps going. So you don't have to be at the destination. So I love that. I love that body neutrality. That's awesome.

Penney: I wanted to say, um, and I know Kinsey this, or Mackenzie, apologize. I Kinsey. , I know this isn't around being a mom, but just saying, I know you lead a community about Love of the body and kind of the body and just wanted to know if there's anything you wanted to say about that to Any of the moms out there.[01:11:00]

Janae: Um

McKenzie: Yeah, thank thank you. I was excited to hear about the the body neutrality work going on with Heather I think that so I've worked on That kind of body kindness is what the group is called body kind Idaho Falls I've worked on that for years, trying to kind of rewrite my relationship with my body. And, and just kind of, you know, what we're kind of sold by society as to how we're supposed to feel about our bodies.

And that was definitely a challenge for me in pregnancy in a way that I hadn't really expected, you know, because you think you've worked through a lot of things. but one of my... Biggest fears when I was trying to get pregnant is that there was going to be something wrong with my body because I was in like a [01:12:00] larger size body that would prevent me from getting pregnant.

And so when, when we were not getting pregnant for a little while, it, I thought there had to be something. You know, immediately, I was like, there's something wrong with me. I need to, like, fix that, and then I'll, I'll be pregnant, and then I should be smaller to be pregnant anyway. And that's because I had seen so many, like, when, I think you see a lot of pregnancies, it's usually thinner women with these, like, beautiful round bellies, and they just look, you know, gorgeous.

And I was like, is, that's probably not what it's gonna look like for me. And I think one of the best things I did for myself was following, , like plus size pregnancy on Instagram, following, , creators that were talking about fertility and plus size bodies. And it really normalized that for me, and so I could see women in all different size bodies looking, you know, different in pregnancy, and it really does look different for [01:13:00] everyone.

So it was just really, that made me feel a lot better. It made it feel like it was more attainable for me. And so that's something I would recommend, like if you, I guess for anyone, you know, just to see that pregnancy looks different for everybody, and that, Your, your body is really not like, it's not a problem that needs to be solved to end up getting pregnant and that you don't need to like change everything about yourself to try to get pregnant either.

Janae: Yeah, I love that. I think about, , How that would not be something that everyone would know or think about bringing into their social media feeds of like, yeah, plus size pregnancy or and building more of that neutrality or changing the expectation or changing the narrative around what does pregnant bodies look like.

We definitely have plans in the works of bringing Mackenzie back on [01:14:00] to talk about the Bodykind community that she's created in Idaho Falls, and we're really excited about that episode. so yeah, I'm excited to keep that conversation going. Me too. So, yes. Awesome. Okay, so we're on our last, , it's called Rapid Fire, but you don't have to be Rapid Fire.

, so the Rapid Fire question is, what is a favorite memory you have since becoming a mom?

How do you pick one? Last I said, a favorite, not the favorite, but just a favorite memory you have.

Tina: Still, I don't know, I feel like that's really hard and I haven't, like I said, I haven't even got to meet her yet. , definitely finding out I was pregnant was amazing. , finding out I was having a little girl.

Probably, and I'm trying not to, like, feel shame around this because I would have been just as excited because it was a baby if

Penney: it would have been a boy,

Tina: , but for some reason I've always wanted a little girl first, , so when I found that out, , it was super fun, [01:15:00] and then I went and picked Janae up and we went and picked out

Janae: outfits to Thank you.

Tell Everybody,

Tina: which was a super fun, special, like, sister

Penney: moment. , so those

Tina: are probably some of my two favorite, and then getting to see her for the first time was really cool.

McKenzie: I really love those, and it makes me think of, you know, that time for me too. So I think that those are great. , I... It is so hard to pick any, even, even with the caveat that it doesn't have to be the, the, the best one. It is so hard. , I have a, a couple, like right when Lily was learning to, to actually smile, like when you, when you'd, , like try to get a picture or something, that was really, really sweet.

And I have these really cute, , fall pictures. We always go do pictures of the fall leaves. Johnny and I have done that. Since we've been together and so it was really sweet to bring her into that tradition And then she was just like had [01:16:00] her big like cheesy grin and so that was so so sweet Always remember that and then when she was starting to laugh That's another thing that is just it's so sweet to hear You know, someone laugh for the first time, so that, that's really special, and I think just, like, memories of, like, nursing her and, like, that time together, that was really just, like, for the two of us.

Heather: ,

very special

Janae: memories. I love that.

Heather: I'm gonna go with the most recent one. There are so many to , pick from now that he's three and a half, but , his dad's been working a lot of overtime lately, and so last week, Everest didn't get to see his dad very much, and so we were FaceTiming in the morning, and Everest has recently become kind of fascinated with the moon.

It is the most interesting thing that he has found yet. , and we have to go out and look for it every day. And it's how I talk him into the car. I'm like, let's go find the moon. Let's get in the car so we can go [01:17:00] find it. Um, but he was FaceTiming with his daddy and noticed that the moon was behind his, his dad's head and was so excited to see the moon.

And then we took the dog outside and the house was blocking his view of the moon, he couldn't see it from where he was. And watching his little brain kind of think about it and process it and come to the conclusion that his dad had stolen his moon. , and he was very upset that dad took his moon. , and it has been one of my favorite things that has happened this month because...

It just is so funny to me and is so sweet that, , he decided that his daddy had his moon and he had to get it back.

Janae: Yeah, that's so cute. I love that. Also, it was so cool. Like, you get to literally watch a human figure out. Everything, like, and as Mackenzie said, like, you get to hear their laugh for the first time, and, I don't know, that's just such a, as someone who hasn't been through [01:18:00] that, such a miraculous and amazing experience from the beginning to the end, I'm sure, like, I'm sure Penny, you can relate that you, there's still more firsts that you get to see every time with your kids still as they're adults.

Penney: Lots of firsts. So many firsts. And they're all so fun. And it's fun to watch their little brains work and see where they end up. Because you never know. And I remember those first giggles. Those are some of the funnest moments. I wish we'd have had more access to recording devices because I would go back and listen to those over and over and over again.

Janae: Yeah, that's cool. All right. We've come to the end of our episode. Thank you all so much for joining us for our mom's episode. Just so much gratitude from me to all of you for sharing, for showing up vulnerable and, you know, sharing things about your journey and, and also being open to helping other [01:19:00] moms, right?

Like we're all in this together. Enjoying to get through it. , it's amazing. So yeah, thank you guys for taking the time to come on with us.

Penney: Yeah, I would repeat that. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day and your little ones. Cause I know it's a weekend and everybody's busy and little ones are not always easiest.

So thank you so much.

McKenzie: Thank you for having us and I really enjoyed talking to you all and and hearing from

Tina: everyone. So thank you. Yeah, thanks. As a soon to, I guess, new mom, but not baby not here yet. It was nice to hear different stages and what that's gonna be fun to experience.

Heather: Yeah, it was nice not to feel alone for a minute. I always love when I can connect with other moms and I can be like, oh my gosh, you're doing this too.

Janae: Okay. , well, if you're listening, thanks for joining us and be sure to stay tuned for our next episode, which will be same questions, but for the [01:20:00] dads. So I'm honestly a little nervous myself about that conversation. So I'm like, okay, I'm not a parent and I'm not a man. So we'll see how that goes. It'll be interesting to hear their responses to these questions.

And, , I'm excited for that. So look out for that episode. They will fully be the experts

Penney: in their own journey. As we all are. Yep, that's

Janae: true. That's very true. Alright, we'll catch you on our next one, and we'll talk to you later. Bye! Bye!