🦃 Ep. 21 How to Flip the Script and Make the Holiday Work for You
Today's episode starts with different holiday perspectives based on Google search trends tied to Thanksgiving in different states, from the types of food served to different ways people spend the holiday.
We also discuss tips on handling the holiday better, including letting go of expectations, sharing chores, and avoiding the pressure of perfection, among others.
This conversation touches on issues like food shaming, body neutrality, and breaking stereotypes about expected gender roles on this occasion.
We wish all our listeners a happy Thanksgiving and encourage you to celebrate in ways that feel most comfortable and enjoyable to you.
Links for this Episode
Each State's Google searches on Thanksgiving
How to Show up for Difficult Conversations, Especially During the Holidays Blog Post
Creating a Culture of Body Appreciation and Neutrality Blog Post
Ep. 21 How to Flip the Script and Make the Holiday Work for You
Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher. A gen X-er and a millennial and a mother and daughter. Join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and penny.
Penney: Hey. And welcome to our Thanksgiving episode.
Janae: Yeah. Hopefully we got all our dates. Correct. And this will be coming out the week before or the week of Thanksgiving,
Penney: which would mean we are either in Mexico laying on a beach or we just came back from it. So, , fast forward, and we're going to be really calm about this time. Yeah, that'll be nice. Maybe it was some tans feeling ready to kick the kick out the seasonal affect disorder for us. Yeah,
Janae: for sure. So we have some tips and then things that we'll get into like usual. But instead of our usual questions, That we start off [00:01:00] with we, well, penny found, , These common Thanksgiving, Google searches. And I think this was from 20. It was from last year. Was it last year? Okay. Yeah, so we thought it would be fun too. Look at this and. Kind of. , look at what people are asking around Thanksgiving and it has it separated state by state. And if we wanted to start with our home state, Idaho. , The most common Google search for Thanksgiving day in Idaho is divorced.
Penney: Yes. Which is sad and telling. And maybe just how stressful that is.
Janae: Yep. so we're just going to Talk about some of the ones that are feel more interesting to us. And then, , there's some funny ones. In here. , like Rhode Island is liquor stores open. That was pretty funny.
Penney: Is McDonald's open. Yeah, I think there's another one for is taco bell open. Isn't it? Isn't there, there taco bell and McDonald's one. Yeah.
Janae: [00:02:00] Yeah.
Penney: Uh, how to get rid of a hangover. That's one.
Janae: can dogs eat stuffing? Oh, I
Penney: love California. Um, racist grandmas. So how many. How to deal with those four, um, Alaska it's, uh, divorce lawyers.
Janae: So, yeah, they're on the same page as us apparently. Yeah.
Penney: Alaska and Idaho, we're trying to figure out if we're saying married or not. Yeah.
Penney: Uh, Nevada is Thanksgiving alone. How to do that by
Janae: yourself? Yeah. And, um, I think that there's some. I mean, there's a lot of funny little questions, but also some poignant ones that's like.
Janae: How do you spend Thanksgiving alone? Yeah. And all the ones where it's like Arizona, a little ceasar are open. Colorado. Is McDonald's open. Oh, no. That's why roaming. Yeah. Or as fast food open and then taco bell near me would be [00:03:00] North Dakota. South Dakota's betrayal. Yeah. So it's like, okay, there's a lot of family things happening. And a lot of people spending Thanksgiving, maybe more alone or not doing the big meal thing. So.
Penney: Yeah. Yeah, Mac and cheese on Thanksgiving. Waffle houses, open on Thanksgiving. Uh, the one for Florida, which brought up something for me was pictures of happy Thanksgiving. So people trying to find ways to feel good. About a Thanksgiving that maybe they're not experiencing.
Penney: Massachusetts bad Thanksgivings. Um, a few about liquor stores being open.
, I wouldn't want to be in Michigan. How to test for food poisoning.
Penney: Uh, how to win an argument is one that's on there.
Penney: Yeah. Yeah. How to, how to unclog the toilet. Uh, without a plunger. That's one of my favorites. I think that [00:04:00] one is really funny.
Janae: Uh, yeah. I like, um, Missouri. Thanksgiving dad jokes. Yeah,
Penney: that's good. Oh, there's a funny knock-knock jokes is on there too, which I think is cute.
Janae: So just kind of opening up the scene for the quote-unquote Thanksgiving episode. Of seeing. It's normal to have maybe not the quote unquote. Perfect. Hallmark Thanksgiving. Yeah. And kind of normalizing that and just talking about it more openly of, sometimes we put a lot of expectation culturally, on these days or these events. And it doesn't necessarily always pan out that way. And I think talking about it is like, You're not alone. If you're going through that. And also some of these, like the. Fast food, places being open. That could also be like people who [00:05:00] don't celebrate Thanksgiving that just want food. Yeah,
Penney: and everything is closed. Can you go. Yeah. It's interesting. The ones though, it's like, Applebee's talk about McDonald's little Caesars. So, A variety of stuff. Ken dogs eat stuffing. Texas is number one question, just because you're wondering.
Janae: Yeah. And then, uh, can dogs eat cranberry sauces?
Janae: Brings into the conversation. Like there is a wide variety of experiences for. Absolutely. Whatever you're feeling or whatever you're going through is quite normal. Yeah. That a lot of people around you, maybe going through the same thing. Yeah. And, , I like Oregon's how to call in sick.
Penney: Yeah. To employers. Let your employees off on Thanksgiving. So you don't have to Google how to not come into work.
Yeah.
Janae: Yeah.
Janae: Well that black Friday crap. Coming in. So. if you're wanting to look this up, we'll leave a [00:06:00] link in the show notes. to this little graphic that shows them all. If we didn't mention your state. So, yeah, we can just hop into maybe some tips around handling Thanksgiving since it is. It looks like for everyone kind of an up and down. And who knows what the day's going to bring. so the first tip. AI is letting go of expectations and remembering what the day is actually about, which is just spending time together with people that you care
Penney: about. Yeah. Or if you don't have people, maybe it's finding things to care about T you go to a homeless shelter. Do you serve at some place that's helping the poor or the needy? We're. , visiting with neighbors. Where is it a date of self care and rest for yourself? I've had Thanksgivings like that, where it was just about me and taking care of me and spending time with myself or walking, hiking, , younger, we would go for horseback rides [00:07:00] on Thanksgiving day, which was something I always loved. And just having some outside time. So what are things that you can do on Thanksgiving that refill you and fuel you and help you feel thankful for. Your body, your self, your life. Whatever that is just a day of gratitude.
Janae: Yeah. And letting go of those expectations of what quote unquote should look like. Yeah. Because it can look like whatever you want. Yes.
Penney: You can.
Janae: Yeah.
Janae: All right. The next tip is this was, I wrote this around, like, if you are having the big Thanksgiving extravaganza. ask for help assign chores and food tests and cooking, et cetera.
Penney: I think they ask for help can go either way. I think you could go if you're spending Thanksgiving alone and you know that, , mental health, this is going to be a difficult day for you. Reach out. Um, Call someone don't be afraid to say, Hey, you might be alone on Thanksgiving also, [00:08:00] or I'm going to be a lot on Thanksgiving. And I don't know how I'm going to do with that. And ask for help. Yeah. Ask to have some support around that. So it is in a day. That, um, leads to more tragedy.
Janae: Yeah. And if you are gathering with people, I think that lessening what's on your plate and sharing in the load is a part of that. Kind of bonding experience of being able to have people come in and. You know, you're cooking together, you're doing things together or helping each other out. And if you think that that's kind of part of those kinds of holiday events.
Penney: Absolutely. If you have one oven it's madness to try and figure out how to schedule all of that. Take advantage and let other people bring some things. I think it also, , increases that feeling of togetherness when everybody contributes and it isn't just your food, but it's other people's food and their ability to give and share and celebrate their strengths. It's important also. [00:09:00] And we took it stuck into that place. Sometimes if I did all of this work and kind of a little bit of a martyr place and step out of that, don't do that. And really just say, I'm glad I was able to do this. I have asked for help and support and it's going to be what it is. Perfection is not the thing. It does not need to look like it doesn't a magazine or on the home show. Yeah.
Janae: Yeah, that's a big one. And, um, I think that it can be easy to fall into that trap of I've been working on this for how many days and. Well, The flip side of that is. You, you made the choice to do that. And if you have the option to get help from other people, Then. You should be asking for it.
Penney: Yes, absolutely allow people to share and participate. That's part of the beauty is letting everybody contribute their talents and their times.
Janae: All right. Or tip number three is to keep it low key and leave off the perfect Pinterest images. [00:10:00] Yes. Kind of what we were talking about just before. Like it's okay to just let things be what they're going to be. And not trying to have your perfect, shiny image of yourself. Or your family or the food or your house? And instead again, going back to, what do you actually want that day to be about? Is it about spending time together? Is it about taking care of yourself? Is it about just eating good food that you like. Or, you know, Maybe it is more about watching sports or watching something together and just gathering. But having it be more low-key I think that's fine. And so it doesn't have to, like you said, look like a home goods show.
Penney: Yeah. And it can just be whatever we want it to be. It's really just about family. And if that is your thing and you enjoy the decorating, then do that and let other people manage food. Or find ways to have that, be everybody gets together to make it that. And I think that's [00:11:00] okay too. Whenever it is for you. Like I would much rather spend times decorating my table. And making it look pretty than cooking a Turkey. So my first Thanksgiving that I was technically in charge, I did that. I bought the table class and I bought the table decorations and. My mom came and she cooked the Turkey and I did the decorating because that is more her strength and that is more my strength. And that made it. Uh, much. More pleasant experience for everyone.
Janae: Yeah. And I think that also sometimes you can feel as a guest, you can feel that tension or those expectations of what it's supposed to look like. And it can feel a little bit. Uncomfortable or strained and it's like, and then pretty soon we're Googling how to get divorced. Yeah.
Janae: How do I get out of here? I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. And then our last tip. Halves. Back pocket conversation changers. So I put this on here. If you're going to a family event with your [00:12:00] great racist grandma. And you have your in California and. You're trying to figure out how to deal with a racist grandma. Yeah. Um, or for me a new talk to Lynn with a racist grandma did have one of those. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, in Louisiana, the whole thing is just racist family. So. So there you go. If you're in Louisiana too, we feel, yeah. Um, but if you're, if you're going to a family event and you know, that. People there are going to be bringing things up. Whether they're, you know, on one side or the other. Having some. Conversation changers. This is something that I've been starting to do. So I put some of mine that I use here. So one of them is, Asking everyone. Do you think that there are more wheels or more doors in the world? And it's funny because everyone looks at you strange when you pop a question out like that, just randomly, but then everyone starts talking about it and it really does change the conversation. Um,
Penney: yeah. Two's that I [00:13:00] use often are, uh, you know, motorcycles don't have doors. And, uh, you know, there's no bones in ice cream. That's too, that I've often used bones in ice newborns. It's not as though. I don't know, that's the whole point, right?
Janae: So, yeah, the wheels are doors was a really common. Thing that just went off on social media. I think it was last year. Something like that. Uh, and then another one that's kind of a social media ism is I'm asking, do you think a hot dog counts as a sandwich?
Janae: So again, like silly things that can kind of pull the conversation away from. Maybe where it's headed or where it's already gone and
Penney: being so upfront about.
Penney: We're not doing politics and we're not doing religion. Those are big ones. And I think you can just step into that as a host or as a hostess or. Just in your own personal boundaries of. At the no-go for me. And [00:14:00] then you can use one of your conversation changers. Our blog that's coming out this week. Yeah. So. You've been out. , and we can link to that in the show notes as well. Penny did a whole blog post about having in showing up for difficult conversations like that. So if you are at a family thing in. Things just continually keep going in that direction. It's like a, how to guide of how do you handle that? What do you do? What are your options? So for sure we can link to that. And that's a good resource for you to use. If you are coming up against
Penney: that. Yeah. I definitely have some difficult family conversations that come up around that. So it's a good practice for all of us. Yeah. Yeah. The last one that I had a more recent experiences. I was having a very difficult conversation that got out of control quickly. And I was heading into emotional flooding and I sent out a lifeline to my children because I have such amazing children and said, Hey, I need funny pictures. And I probably got 50 of the [00:15:00] funniest pictures that I would have never seen in less because I had not asked for them specifically.
Penney: Right. , so it really helped to be a game changer for me that kept me positive in a place of laughter and kept me from going down my ladder. So maybe having some funny jokes or some funny pictures on your phone, or maybe adding something to your screensaver, that's funny that can really allow for that.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one.
Janae: All right. So we're onto our, it takes two. First one is how have you, this is a question for you, penny. How have you found ways to break Thanksgiving? Stereotypes of male and female roles? I don't know if that's necessarily happened in my house, around the male female roles. For me, it's been more giving up my female role. I don't enjoy cooking. It's not a thing for me. There's a few Thanksgiving things I love to make love, mashed potatoes and gravy. I really love to make apple pie. Uh, if I have someone coming that enjoys a dish that I know is special, I'm okay. Making it. but I really have found it that it's [00:16:00] okay to simplify, not to make it over complicated. And we have a restaurant here in Idaho falls that for a really reasonable price, they will do your entire meal. I think it's like $89 for six people and they do the rolls, the potatoes, the yams, the corn, that everything I've done that. So for me, and I would guess giving some kudos to my partner because he feels the same way that it's a day off and he doesn't want me in the kitchen all day. He wants me to be watching funny shows with him or. building a train or a car set or doing some of the more enjoyable things as a family, he would rather, I didn't spend the whole time in the kitchen. so I think we've gotten away from that by changing what Thanksgiving looks like. Does that look like ordering out? Last year, it looked like I did a simple ham and we did some potatoes and some pie. And we, we really just, every year have a conversation around what feels good, what can, what are, what do we feel capable of doing? And then I tailor it to that because it's just not something that we need to spend all day doing. Also some of the, the, the typical male role of [00:17:00] like carving the Turkey. He hates that. Uh, so last year he refused to do it, which surprised me, uh, because generally he has at least embraced the role. That's his job. And he refused. He's like, no, you've got it. You figure it out because I hate it. And I hate it every year and I'm not doing it this year. Um, so, so really being able to, to have a voice around what you feel comfortable with and what you don't, and then changing Thanksgiving to look like that.
Janae: Yeah. For me. It's very similar. I'm not the cook in my family either. And my spouse. Loves to be in the kitchen. He loves to do that kind of stuff. And so allowing. Space for it was funny. Just not even necessarily around Thanksgiving, but after we first moved in together, it was a shift for both of us to let go of those stereotypes of. is it okay that he's the one that cooks most of our meals? Is it okay that he, when we go to a family gathering, and we get a [00:18:00] food assignment. He's the one making it. And what does that look like for his version? Like his, um, Idea of masculinity and his sense of self and my femininity and my sense of self. And so we've kind of already rolled through that. And when we do Thanksgiving, it is very much so like, Um, to help her in the kitchen, I do dishes and clean up or grocery shopping or the other parts of the day instead of the actual cooking of the meal. and so yeah, allowing that to. Just be what it is.
Penney: I think something else, and maybe this comes up more with the next six, takes two questions. So I'll read that one and then we'll talk about it. What traditions or stereotypes around Thanksgiving are you challenging or changing? I know for our family, the big challenge and change around that has been when we do it. Because when you have to attend five family Thanksgivings, you cannot do those all on one day. Can softly uncomfortable. and so we've really been more flexible around what w what we can works. [00:19:00] Cause we can celebrate Thanksgiving whenever we want to celebrate Thanksgiving. And what do we want that to look like? Whose house does it need to be at? As I said, the week before Thanksgiving, this year, we will be in Mexico and not last year, but the year before we were and trying to make that our family Thanksgiving. And then it opens up space to be able to do that. At a different house or we've done it the day after we've done it. The weekend before the weekend after we've, we've made a lot of change around time. Because just because that Thursday is set aside for Thanksgiving, doesn't mean that's how you have to spend it. You can spend time with your family being grateful. For being a family. any time that you want to, it doesn't have to be on that day. Yeah.
Janae: Yeah. And for some people like, uh, that Oregon question where it was, how do you call in? It could be like a work schedule issue. And so if you can't all gather and you know, you need to change the day, then change the day. It's not a big deal. Like. I like thinking about. [00:20:00] Uh, other traditions or stereotypes around Thanksgiving is like, what is actually served? Some people hate your traditional Turkey items. And so swapping them out for things that you like. And. Maybe it's like the. The tradition of. Having food at all or having the whole day be around food could be difficult for some people. And maybe that's something that you're changing. Maybe you're, you're making it around a different activity or a different thing.
Penney: So the food is a big trigger for so many people that having. Really your holiday season from Halloween until new year's based around food and meals. And I think we've talked about this before. It can be extremely difficult. For people who have food issues, which are family. It's full of people with food issues and stomach issues and eating disorders, not necessarily in our family, but people that do have that. And so having entire holidays just based around [00:21:00] food shift, the script, it doesn't have to be that it can be. Around, you know, gathering time or a new game or new activities or getting out or traveling or. So many things that really, it doesn't have to be around food.
Janae: Yeah. And so our question would be for you listeners. What traditions and stereotypes do you want to let go of what are you challenging? What doesn't fit for you or your family that you can let go of? You don't need to hold on to that. And maybe an opening up a conversation with your immediate family or your extended family of like, Hey, this wasn't really working. You know, What else can we do? Or what's some other options. Yeah,
Penney: how can we change the script or if you're hosting. I'm going to host it this way. When you host it, you host it your way, but this is what works for me. And this is how I'm going to show up and do Thanksgiving. You can own it. You can take ownership of it. Yeah, that's true.
Janae: All right. You ready for your, I spin the wheel? Yeah, absolutely. [00:22:00]
Penney: Uh, number one. Uh, let's see. So how do you change your internal dialogue from food shaming to a neutral approach? Oh, We think about that one for a minute. I, I actually have just tried over the last few years to really make a shift away from food in general. In fact, what was it? Three years ago, four years ago, we scheduled a spa day. We did Thanksgiving, not on Thursday. We chose a different day for it and we made it around a spa day. And then the year after that, we were in Mexico and last year, I made things that I thought were simple, that my family enjoyed eating, and it was really more of a day of games and time together. So my inner dialogue around food has really shifted away from Thanksgiving, being about food to Thanksgiving, being about family time. And self care time. I decorate really, really big for Halloween and I decorate a room. A really big for Christmas and, um, Thanksgiving in the middle of [00:23:00] that also. And so for me, sometimes Thanksgiving is about. The shifting of the house and the changing of the house or projects or things that I want to get started on or finished as we're heading into the Christmas season. So I really tried to move it away from food, to it, being more of a day that I get to take care of me and spend time with my family.
Janae: Nice. All right.
Janae: Oh, gosh.
Janae: Okay. I got uneven. So this is how do you steer the conversation away when the topic of calories, diet or fat shaming comes up? This is such a common thing around a lot of holiday meals, but especially I think Thanksgiving. Um, when people talk about, oh no, I couldn't eat anymore. You know, I've already. I'm already going to have to go and work all of this off or whatever. And. I would like to say if you're someone who says things like that, maybe consider stopping. We don't. [00:24:00]
Janae: Um, and then if you are around people who say that. Steering the conversation away could look like saying. something like. I don't appreciate talking about that. I want it, like, you can just completely say I don't talk about diets. I don't talk about. Body shaming. I don't. You know, don't talk about that around me. You can just leave it. At that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, other ways history or the conversation could be like embracing or challenging what they said of like, oh, really? I love the, how much we've eaten or I love how full I feel or I love how it's okay to just eat until you feel good. And then leave it at that. Like you can give some challenging or pushback around. Yeah, I don't feel the need to shame myself for enjoying a holiday.
Penney: Yeah, it's also an awesome opportunity to bring up the topic of, body neutrality. And what [00:25:00] does that mean? And what do you think about that? And, and have an introduction to healthy conversations also.
Janae: Or bring up the questioning. Why do we feel like we need to. Um, self-sabotage or, or self criticize ourselves when. We are talking about food things like, I'm sure you have people in your life where it's like, no matter what, the conversation around food generally steers in that direction of. Oh, I've been bad or I shouldn't have eaten that or, you know, whatever it is that they say. And really challenging that and asking like, you know, where did that come from? Why do we feel the need to do that? And can we stop.
Penney: And if this is an uncomfortable conversation that we're, or if this is an uncomfortable holiday, because we're basing it around food. Is there another way you would like to do it in the future and maybe bringing up a question around change. And promoting that. Yeah.
Janae: All right. So we're [00:26:00] onto our rapid-fire. Rapid fire question for both of us today is what are some fun Thanksgiving memories that you have? I had one, a few years ago, we went to Boise to do Christmas with Christopher and Becca. And, um, Tina and Becca loved to make drinks. And I, um, raised LDS didn't drink until I was 30. Not great tolerance of alcohol and didn't know they had put alcohol in the drink, sat down, talked to my drink, feeling thirsty and almost fell off my chair. Like halfway through the meal. I was feeling it and I that's kind of a strange Thanksgiving memory, but it was just really funny to be like, whoa,
Penney: And then trying to pretend the entire meal like that didn't happen. And I don't think I talked about it with anybody for like a year later, um, when they were talking about Thanksgiving again and I said, okay, but maybe warn me about the drink. Cause they had no idea. So I did a good job with pretending, but it wasn't something I ever thought I would have to pretend. It's really odd.
Janae: That is funny. I like that. [00:27:00] Um, Let's see. Some Thanksgiving memories for me. A few years ago. Uh, Brooklyn and I cut it and do our regular Thanksgiving was family. And so we. It was the first year we had lived in our house and. We just got a tiny little chicken, like a whole chicken, and he cooked that and made a few little tiny side dishes. And then. We just sat around and ate that just the two of us. And I don't know why that comes. It's not necessarily a funny memory, but more just like. The nice feeling of just the two of us and we didn't need a big giant meal. And, but it was still very special. The COVID
Penney: year was it. Then we played the funny online games with each one of us in our houses was at the same.
Janae: No. Oh, it might've been after, but we've missed [00:28:00] Thanksgiving because that was the year that we were at a funeral. Thanks giving. And so, well, it wasn't exactly Thanksgiving, but we were driving back into town on actually Thanksgiving day. And so, yeah.
Penney: Yeah. We'll say we know, I know we did some of those strange around COVID games as a family to try and still connect over the holiday.
Janae: Yeah, lots of, um, Jackbox games. And stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good tip. If you are. Um, not able to travel or see the people that you want. Like still you can do. You know, our online world. It has its pros and cons. One of the pros is being able to do things like that. You still felt like here. Uh, part of each others. Holiday and day, and you're still able to connect, even if you can't be there in person. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for joining us for this holiday Thanksgiving episode, and we hope that you have a wonderful holiday, no matter how you choose to spend it. [00:29:00] And don't
Penney: be afraid to flip the script. It's okay to change things.
Janae: Yeah, allow it to be a day where you're taking care of yourself and you're having a good time, even if it doesn't follow regular traditions. And yeah, we'll catch you in our next one.
