Ep. 26 Untangling Body Image: A Conversation with McKenzie Whitesides Willmore -Creator of the Idaho Falls Body Kind Community
In Episode 26 of "Untangling Relationships," our hosts, Janae and Penney, bring to the table an insightful and open-ended conversation about body positivity and acceptance. They are joined by McKenzie, the creator of a local body acceptance community, Body Kind.
This discussion underscores the significance of self-compassion, mindfulness, and inclusive spaces to promote body acceptance. It also sheds light on the societal shift required to redefine beauty and body norms. Above all, it emphasizes that losing weight or changing your body isn’t a prerequisite for happiness.
Links Mentioned
Body Kind Idaho Falls Facebook Community
You Just Need to Lose Weight” and 19 Other Myths About Fat People
Ep. 26 Untangling Body Image:
Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to Untangling Relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a Gen X er and a millennial, and a mother and a daughter. Join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and Penney. Hi, and welcome. Welcome to our episode. , we also have a lovely guest today.
Janae: Mckenzie, if you want to introduce yourself, you're welcome to. Very happy to have you on.
McKenzie: I'm Mckenzie. I'm really excited to be here with you guys. Um, apologizing again for the scratchy throat. That is just part of my life right now. I am a creator of the Bodykind community here at Idaho Falls. And that is just, that's a group for body acceptance, weight neutrality, kind of creating a community of like minded people.
McKenzie: And And it's been [00:01:00] such an awesome experience in getting to meet new people and , do some of the events that like I've always wanted to have someone hosting. So it's, it's been great.
Janae: Yeah, and Penney and I decided to bring Mckenzie on because we're at the end of January and There's always a lot of talk about changing bodies and weight loss and things that happen at the new year.
Janae: And so we wanted to add a more positive, , perspective for our audience. And, yeah, you also might recognize Mckenzie from our parenting episode. She's amazing and was willing to come back onto the pod for us. So yeah, if you haven't listened to that, you should go back and check out those episodes. It's like 16, 17, and 18 or something like that.
Janae: But yeah, some great parenting episodes [00:02:00] and It's been really wonderful having the body kind community in Idaho Falls. We do do virtual events. Um, so if you aren't from around here, you're welcome to come join the group for the virtual events. But I would love to hear just a little bit more background on when you started it.
Janae: and kind of like, what was the motivation and the feelings and how has it gone so far? And maybe talking about some of the big impactful moments or events that have happened.
McKenzie: Yeah, that's a really great question. So, when I decided to do BodyKind Community, I was just, I was taking a walk around the Greenbelt with my husband, and I'm the kind of person I think that I get like, sudden ideas, and I'm like, this needs to happen.
McKenzie: And then, I kind of don't Like stop [00:03:00] until something happens towards it, but I was just thinking, I'm like, there's something missing. There isn't anything like this, which is a, a community around body acceptance. Um, and I know falls, it didn't feel like there was much out there and I had been going through my own like body trust journey for a while.
McKenzie: And I had some good support and my friends, but outside of that, it's kind of hard, like not, I didn't feel like a lot of people understood what I was, what I was looking for. Um, yeah, I just, it felt kind of lonely. And I figured there had to be other people who were going through the same thing. And so the body kind community.
McKenzie: Came into, into my head as like, it was, I mean, I was kind of envisioning down the road, like, this place where people could [00:04:00] go and there would be, um, counseling or, like, body friendly counseling, body friendly nutrition advice, like, um, exercise that you could do with, with groups, and, uh, because it takes a while to get, uh, A brick and mortar place like that.
McKenzie: I was just thinking, let's, let's create this, this place online. Um, and so I created a Facebook group and it's been great. It's been growing quite a bit and it makes me feel happy to know that there's a lot of people who think the same way. So right now what we do is. We share things in the Facebook group and we have events.
McKenzie: All of the time is like a monthly event. We've done in the past, one of the, I think, highlights of the group was we did a scale Smash. That was [00:05:00] something, uh, Janae, you came to. It was a lot of fun. Um, we went to the local, I can't remember what the name is, the Smash Room. Yeah. But we went there, we took some scales, we wrote some messages on them, and then we just pulverized them.
McKenzie: It was cathartic, fun. Um, so that was one of the highlights, I think. And then, we also did a Fat babe pool party, which is something I've been like, envisioning since starting the Body Kind community. Um, and Janae, you came to that. And that was so fun. And it's, um, I watched the show Shrill and that's kind of where that idea came from for me.
McKenzie: And so being able to embody that and make it happen, it was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And it's [00:06:00] really wonderful to have a little culture and community or bubble around you. People who are going through similar things, or who have similar values, or wanting to, talk a certain way. Um, full disclosure, Mckenzie and I literally just came from a BodyKind event right before this recording.
McKenzie: A lovely book club, hosted by one of the dieticians that's actually in the group, Rebecca. Like we were talking about in that group, it was wonderful to have a bubble of people that you can eat things and not have people talk about diets or, um, you know, it's funny, you can, when you go and talk or you're around other people and that becomes a topic of conversation, you're like, oh, it's nice to [00:07:00] have it.
McKenzie: Carved out spaces where you're not having to constantly battle that kind of talk and things. So, yeah. Right. I completely agree, and I think when you're trying to step away from diet culture, you'll realize that it's entwined in so many of your, of your spaces, like work or going to hang out with friends and family and It's just so intertwined with everything that it can feel like you're really doing something odd, you know?
McKenzie: And something that's uncomfortable for people if you try to talk to some people about it. So, Body Kind Community is a safe space away from that, where you can just say how you're feeling, and everyone's been there.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely a real amount of camaraderie and compassion and holding space for each other's experiences, [00:08:00] which is lovely.
Janae: Yeah. Cool. Well, thanks for introducing yourself and thank you again for coming on. We're going to hop into our questions, and I think it would be fun to have, of course, Mckenzie, you answer these first, and then if Penney and I have any additional thoughts, we might pop our thoughts into, um, Penney, do you want to ask the questions?
Penney: Okay, so first question is, uh, how do you love your body when you hate it?
McKenzie: Yes, that is a really good question. And I think that kind of the misconception of body positivity is that you have to go from hating your body to loving your body.
McKenzie: And that is A huge step. I don't think that, um, I don't think that you [00:09:00] should try to go from hating your body to loving it. I think that you should, something I think we're going to talk a little bit more about, um, later on in the podcast is something more like body neutrality. Um, if you're not feeling comfortable in your body.
McKenzie: And there's a lot of things that stand out to you that you don't like. Um, body neutrality is a lot more about noticing it, but not having to say, I hate this or I love this. But more like, this is what it is, you know? Um, so I think a good thing to work on when you're having a lot of body hate is more of trying to pay attention to those things.
McKenzie: negative thoughts in your head. Um, a lot of us have those. They are, I mean, even just like, you know, diet culture, society kind of tells us what we should [00:10:00] look like. And so when we notice that we don't, we have a lot of those internal thoughts, like looking in the mirror and saying, Oh, I feel like I look old, or I'm noticing I have wrinkles, that's a bad thing.
McKenzie: Um, body neutrality would be more like, I have wrinkles, that's okay. Um, I'm aging, that's normal. And, um, I'm human. And that's, it's a human thing to age, I can't stop that. And so, when you get to more of a place of, Being able to combat those negative thoughts, it took me a while just to work through those. I still have them.
McKenzie: There's never going to be a, I think, I don't think anyone's going to like fully win the battle, you know, the internal battle, but when you start checking those negative thoughts [00:11:00] about how you look, it'll get a lot more second nature. So I think that's a great thing to work on when you're struggling with body hate.
McKenzie: , let's see. Another thing I think that's a good tool for trying to get a little bit, to get further away from that body hatred would be updating your social media. Follow people who look like you. follow people who are in similar bodies. Uh, follow, I mean, follow people who don't look like you, that's, that's good too.
McKenzie: But, um, you don't have to follow people who are only the ideal or society's norm or what society is trying to hold up as a norm. When you follow people who look like normal people, it's, I think you can start to see beauty in a lot of different things that you were told [00:12:00] you shouldn't see beauty in. So, that's, I think, one tip, and have a community around you, like, join BodyKind Community.
McKenzie: That's probably not the only time I'm going to say that, but join BodyKind Community. Be with people who, who are doing the same thing and have been in the same place.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah, I was going to mention and then I forgot that we got these questions just by doing a Google search and looking at what the most common questions people are asking about body kindness and stuff.
Janae: So um, so yeah, that's where we got these questions from, which I think is important because when you've been slowly immersing yourself in that. change of culture and trying to change your perspective. It can be hard to then remember back to where you started [00:13:00] and what you were struggling with at the very beginning of things.
Janae: And so, yeah, we used use Google to try and relate more of what How are people relating to this on both ends of the spectrum? Um, one thing that I really liked about the book that we just recently read for The Body Kind it's called, um, The Body Is Not An Apology. And one of the things that she talks about in the book was if you grew up speaking French and if French was your only language Even if you start learning another language, you're going to still have thoughts in French, or you might still think some things in French, or Accidentally says them things in French and it was a really good way of saying like if you've grown up and you've only ever been around Societal messaging that [00:14:00] talks about bodies in a certain way and have a certain ideal Even if you're trying to learn a new way of thinking or breaking some of those thought patterns the French is still going to come through Which is really?
Janae: What I noticed you saying it's like you're never going to have that perfect neutral or positive perspective on your body all the time or other people's bodies like you might catch yourself accidentally thinking or saying something that doesn't really align with the new values or new perspective that you want.
Janae: That's just the perfection around that is, um, Unrealistic. The French is going to leak through and I just found that a really good visualization, um, or analogy of way of thinking of that. So, yeah.
McKenzie: Yeah, I love that. I think that's great because, yeah, I think when you've heard those things your whole life, it's, [00:15:00] it's just too much to expect yourself to just suddenly not think it because you don't agree with it anymore.
McKenzie: Yeah.
Janae: Yeah. If only it was as easy to flip a switch, but like with most things, it's a ever continuing practice for change. So yeah.Penneyny, do you have any thoughts around this topic? This question?
Penney: Yeah, definitely. And mine kind of goes into the next question, which is body positivity versus body neutrality.
Penney: But, which works better for me, but I really like the idea of focusing on what my body can do. Instead of what it is, and that's the big piece for me that I try to just focus there that I'm not trying to change old mindsets other than letting them kind of die off, but really focusing on the strength, the beauty, the power, the movement and ways that it serves me every day and gratitude for that.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good segue into that next question around body [00:16:00] positivity versus body neutrality. I like to think that there's definitely room and space for both, but I have definitely experienced and heard from other people that neutrality can be a really good either place to completely shift to or a stepping stone to getting to Maybe around acceptance or even positivity.
Janae: But yeah, focusing more on thanking your body or thanking like, thanking your legs for helping you walk, or thanking your lungs for letting you breathe and things like that. Like Penney was saying, shifting the focus away from um, other expectations around how it's supposed to look or function and focusing on the things that you Can appreciate that it is functioning or, or, um, supporting you and your lifestyle and in whatever way it is.
Penney: Kind of like positive [00:17:00] reinforcement for your body. So instead of focusing on the negative, which brings up more negative, we're focusing on the positive to bring up more positive and reward the behavior, right?
Janae: Yeah, and I'm sure that is a really good way of slowly changing those thought patterns like you were saying.
Penney: Well, sure, because wherever we focus is what we see, right? So. We find evidence to support our beliefs and our views, regardless of what that is.
McKenzie: Yeah, no, I love that. Where you're starting to notice, you know, your body and giving it credit for the things it does instead of just thinking about the way it looks. That's a great way to get into a more accepting mindset. I think, so for me, when I was kind of thinking about the differences between body positivity and body neutrality is, it felt to me like body positivity is the movement, you know, it's the thing that happened, , that made things a little bit more [00:18:00] publicly, you know, like more aware for people, you know, I don't think we were talking at least I wasn't seeing it as much as a topic for for a while until like the whole body positivity movement came about.
McKenzie: , So it feels to me like body positivity is kind of a celebration of bodies of all different kinds, which, and it kind of pushes back on those societal norms and social pressure to look a certain way. So I think it was like a necessary thing. It needed to happen so that we could talk more about it. , I do think that it kind of, so when those kind of things happen, sometimes they get a little bit co opted.
McKenzie: I do think that that's kind of happened with the body positivity movement. it's kind of like a brands are interested in it. You know, things like that happen. I don't know [00:19:00] if you guys follow at all, but like, the things that happen with like, Victoria's Secret, where they haven't cared for years, that they have, that there could be a diverse customer base, but now they're just starting to care.
McKenzie: That's kinda like, when, when a movement takes off, things happen like that. That's not all bad, I mean, I want brands to make their things inclusive. But I don't want it to be like, oh, we're doing bad. We're dying out. We should change now.
Janae: Yeah, it feels very performative or like jumping on the bandwagon.
Janae: Yeah, and you're like that's That I mean I can appreciate the change, but also then you start to question If the pendulum swings the other way are they going to continue holding strong to those values Or is it just like a passing fad that they're trying to fit in? Yeah
Penney: Yeah, playing the devil's advocate on that a little bit, though, it also shows the power of people and society and opinions [00:20:00] to be able to make large scale change if we want to.
Janae: Mm hmm. Yeah, so important to have the belief that starting movements like that and creating Little pockets of change can eventually grow and make people notice. So yeah, I think that one thing that I was thinking when you were talking about the difference between the name of the movement versus some of the practices within the movement around body positivity versus neutrality, I think it's more impactful to hear the words body positive or Like, in the book we just read, it was talking about radical self love, and it needs to have some kind of a bigger punch or a bigger impact for people to notice it, and, but then there's a little bit of nuance within the movement of, yeah, there can be neutrality, acceptance, um, [00:21:00] some gray areas in the middle of, But yeah, the movement itself.
Janae: I really like that you phrased it like that, Mckenzie, because I had never thought of it like that. But I do think that the differences is a lot around the name of the whole movement itself, but then some of the more nuanced techniques and things within it.
McKenzie: Right, right. And I think, you know, with body positivity, it's like, it's exciting to talk about like celebrating all bodies.
McKenzie: And it's a little bit less exciting to talk about accepting your body as it is or like just being okay with, with everything that comes with having a body. So I do think that it's great having the body positivity movement because it's really opened up a lot of conversations and things. But sometimes you can't go from zero to body positivity.
McKenzie: Because. It's, it's hard. Like, there's a lot of steps along the way to get [00:22:00] there and you don't even have to end up, you know, even after working with your relationship with yourself and your body, you don't have to end up at a place where you're like, man, I love everything about my body. Like, I love the way it looks.
McKenzie: I love the way it feels to be in it. Like, sometimes it's totally fine just to be like, you know, I'm fine knowing that I have a body. It looks the way it does. It behaves the way it does. I don't have to, I don't have to like, be over the moon about it.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's probably going to be a day to day moment to moment experience of heck yes, and meh, or even less than meh about it.
Janae: So yeah, I like that. Cool.
Penney: Also, just thinking about that, I love the car I drive. That doesn't mean I love it every day, right? Or the house that I live in, or the job that [00:23:00] I do. I think some of that is human variance. That we can love it, and embrace it, and enjoy it, and still have moments or days where we feel differently about it.
Penney: Cause that's just what we do.
McKenzie: Definitely. Like, I like my car too, but when it has a problem, I'm, I'm irritated, and I feel like that's, you know, sometimes the same experience in your body, like, it's great when it's doing everything I want, but when I feel ill, or when I feel like I can't do something, like, I'm just stuck on it, like, blaming it for, for the illness, or whatever's wrong.
Penney: Yeah, so I think just being able to say, Even if there's moments or days or weeks, it doesn't mean you're not making progress or moving more towards a positive and neutral place. It just means you're human and there's going to be variance in everything. So kindness and compassion for ourself in the journey and where we're at and good moments and bad moments.[00:24:00]
McKenzie: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to say one of the things that I learned when I was first starting out. It was kind of like, uh, bad body days, and so, you know, a lot of the times you're, you're doing good, you're making progress or whatever, every once in a while you have a bad body day, that does not mean that you've like, taken a step back on your progress or anything.
McKenzie: Everyone has bad body days. , sometimes it's just, you know, something sets something off, but I realized, at least with my progress with everything, My bad body days used to set me off to like maybe sign up for something like Noom or wanna put myself on a diet, put myself on an exercise plan. That was usually my my cycle, I guess.
McKenzie: So I'd have a bad body day and be like, I have to change everything about my life. Now I have a bad [00:25:00] body day and I can just admit it's a bad body day and I don't need to do anything about it.
Janae: Hmm. That's really powerful. And I'm sure that's an experience that a lot of people can relate to. , I mean, it's and it's also such a human experience like Penney was saying when you're running into a roadblock with something or feeling really frustrated around a specific thing.
Janae: I think there is a tendency to say everything around this thing is wrong. Burn it to the ground. Ditch the thing, um, have to start completely all over or whatever it is, and recognizing that that is a human tendency can be helpful when we're working in more of these smaller, niche things, I guess. yeah.
Penney: Yeah, I'm also thinking about, we talk about, , with relationships all the time, the power of being with instead of doing for. And I would say you can introduce that with a relationship with your body, too. That there's days when we just be with it, [00:26:00] in whatever that feels like. And then there are days when, you know, we pull away from that due for.
Penney: Like you were talking about Mckenzie, like I don't have to create a new diet plan, go to the gym or change anything. I just have to be with it and when it's sick or when it feels icky or mentally I'm not there and just be mindful of where we're at instead of needing to create action around that relationship with our body.
Penney: Yeah,
Janae: I would say those days for me are great days to pull inward and be reflective around how I'm feeling and trying not to change or control any of those emotions, but instead just allow them to be what they are and try not to have judgment towards myself for feeling those things.
McKenzie: Right. And like you said, it's a practice.
McKenzie: It can be really hard at first to stick with negative feelings and not want to create action. [00:27:00] That's been a Uh, something I've worked with for a long time is trying to kind of avoid negative feelings by creating an action plan to be like, I'm not gonna feel this way again, , you know, and then I've learned the hard way that that doesn't work.
McKenzie: So being able to create space for those feelings is, is the most important thing you can do. And it just takes time. Yeah. Yeah.
Janae: It's exhausting to try and. Um, runaway or disaster plan for those either events that trigger those feelings or just those feelings in general. And then after you do that so often, you realize, oh, this doesn't work anyways.
Janae: It's a lot of wasted energy and effort to try and dodge those things. Um, so yeah, learning and it's such a hard process when that has been the way that we're taught to cope with things is like. Over productivity or planning or [00:28:00] trying to fix things, just like Penney was saying, and slowly trying to change to just sit with it and be there.
Janae: It's not really something that we learn, um, and learning to have that calm, grounded embodiment of just going to be here for and with myself. It's a really hard thing to practice and learn, so kudos to everyone that is trying to do that.
McKenzie: Right, right. And I feel like, you know, with diet culture at least, they don't want you to, like, have those, like, sit with the feelings.
McKenzie: They want you to, like, automatically go out and try to fix it. And we get a lot of, a lot of stimuli from them about What to do in those kind of situations, and it's like, there's always something out there being like, we can [00:29:00] help you change. Mm hmm. So, coming back to yourself after you've kind of gotten used to not, it is, yeah, it's a whole work in progress kind of thing.
Janae: Yeah, well, and a lot of those things are purposely trying to trigger those feelings within you so that they can then profit off of them. Right. Which is really sad when you, but also empowering when you can start seeing that and saying I'm not going to step into that and I don't agree with that messaging or I don't need to agree with those feelings, um, whatever it is that they're trying to trigger within you.
Janae: And it is empowering when you can say, screw that. I don't need that. Yeah. Cool. Are we ready for the next question?
Penney: Yeah, absolutely. so our next question is, , how do we create more body acceptance? I think we've talked about this a little bit. Maybe we can, just [00:30:00] reiterate things we've said.
Penney: So one of them, mindfulness and compassion. I think we talked about both of those. and, And the other ones people want to throw out that of how they've done it for me focusing on positive, being grateful of what my body does and taking it away from looks, diet. Um, any other thoughts?
McKenzie: Yeah, I think like I said earlier, it's important to find a community just because, you know, we have so much that we've taken in. From society, from media, from all of that, and so having that community to help you is, is really important because it is literally, like, rewiring your brain when you're trying to make a change like this, so for me, when I started to, to create more body acceptance in my life, or when I found out I was ready, I, I had been in I've been dieting on and off [00:31:00] since like 6th grade, and I tried all the programs like LA Fitness, I think, um, Weight Watchers, I tried everything, and yeah, the ones like where you eat like fake food and everything like that, so I tried everything and I, I was so used to thinking that there was like something wrong with me, um, that I didn't have enough self discipline.
McKenzie: Basically that if I could just stick with what I was supposed to, I would be fine, but I wasn't capable of doing that. So eventually I got my like insulin resistance diagnosis or whatever. And basically. Like, pre diabetes, basically saying that if I didn't get it together, like, I was gonna get type 2 diabetes and it was so scary for me.
McKenzie: I was really like, [00:32:00] well, here it is, you know, here's the thing that I've been waiting for to happen, and I tried to, another diet, of course, like, right before that, and it didn't work out. And I finally started to go, maybe it's the diets, maybe it's not me. And I listened to a podcast. Um, I'm trying to remember what it was because they discontinued it.
McKenzie: But, um, the creators of this body trust program was on. And, um, they're, it's Hillary and Dana, but I'm spacing their last names. And I listened to that, and that was one of the first times that I was like, This is something I've been needing to hear for a long time. And so, I did their body trust, program.
McKenzie: And that helped me so, so much. So, doing something like that, like [00:33:00] taking a class like body trust, I fully, I recommend it so much for people who are like kind of questioning things. Or joining a community like BodyKind, I feel like that's going to help set you up to, to start being able to question things that you haven't questioned for a, you know, because it was just told to you that way.
Janae: Yeah, I think the really impactful thing there is like turning from questioning or blaming yourself and your body to blaming and questioning society, or like you said, the diets, or you know, whatever it is, it's like, starting to really question why is the blame always on me or my body, like why is it me that needs to be fixed instead of society that needs to be fixed, or cultural things, or um, whatever You know, systemic [00:34:00] change that needs to happen in order for people to feel comfortable in their bodies or have access to certain healthcare things, But no, it's always uh, No, it's you.
Janae: You're the problem. You need to be fixed.
McKenzie: Right, and that just sets you up for the, that like, cycle of Feeling guilty or feeling bad about myself. So, I'm gonna start a new diet, start a new exercise program, like, things are going good, and then something's always gonna happen to throw you off one of those things, and then you you probably, like, if you're like me anyway, after you've been restricting food for a while, then you basically end up binging everything that you said that you couldn't have.
McKenzie: And then you go right back into that guilt feeling, and it's just a constant cycle. And [00:35:00] diet culture makes you think that it's your fault. And that's how they sell diets.
Penney: Yeah, I think it's interesting. I, in my 20s, I worked at a retirement home. And All the participants ate the same food, it had to be nutritionally appropriate, they all had very similar activity levels, and yet they all looked the same.
Penney: Or not the same, sorry, they all looked different. So, you really start to think about that's not just input, minus output, and we have a negative caloric intake and boom we lose weight. It just doesn't work that way. We have to take into account our bodies and how it processes food and, and I think diets get stuck in that it's just so simple place and it's not.
Penney: We have to just learn to love our body and for how it functions and for what it is and, and be healthy and focus on that. And I just, that was [00:36:00] such a moment for me of realizing, hmm, maybe it's just more about how my body exists in the world and how it wants to be comfortable. Rather than what I'm doing wrong.
Penney: Yeah. And on paper, you could look at all of those people without. Looking at them or looking at their weight metrics or whatever and you could say, wow, all of these people are super healthy. They're eating the balanced diet and they're having all these similar activity levels. They're all very, very healthy.
Penney: And then it's when you add in the visual of looking at people with the lens of, Um, what we're expecting health to look like or the weight metric of health to look like that comes in and skews everything, um, in a way that isn't helpful for anyone and has been proven by a lot of scientific research that it's not true.
Penney: Like weight is not [00:37:00] equivalent to health. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, that's a really interesting experience to have. And to be able to see that and be like, huh, wow, yeah, I love that.
McKenzie: Yeah, I agree. And that's kind of like we were talking about with the, my body's not apology book with the, like the poodle science.
McKenzie: It's like, we're all different people, all different in the, in the poodle science, all different breeds of, of dogs, all different people. We don't. You can't judge a Mastiff on, on what a poodle eats during the day or how a poodle looks. It's like we're all different. Genetics plays a big role into how we process diet.
McKenzie: So does class, what's available food wise around us. So, just looking at a person doesn't [00:38:00] tell you anything about their health.
Janae: Yeah, yeah, , in Audrey, is it Audrey or Aubrey? I can't remember. I apologize. Um, Gordon's books in the 10 things. Oh gosh. I can't remember the title. It's like 10 things about fat phobia or something.
Janae: I'll link it in. Yeah. I can't remember the full title, but, um, she, yes, 10 myths. That's what it is. Yep. Um, she talks about how, Um, not that many years ago, we thought that there was only five genetic markers around weight, and they're doing more and more research, and it's in the 50s or 60s now, the number of genetic markers around it, so it's like, we're just barely scratching the surface around our understanding of how there's a variance in body size, and, um, yeah, allowing ourselves to maybe look a little [00:39:00] deeper around what all that means, um, I just feel like society is very, very slow to change and slow to accept maybe difference of opinion versus the scientific facts that we're finding and integrating all of that.
Janae: It's, it's really slow moving. But I really, something that's helped me around creating more body acceptance is doing more research around what do we actually know, what's the, that's why I really loved her book because it was all like, the ten myths were ten, phrased around like ten questions or things that people get told a lot about weight and what the science, uh, proves and So, um, yeah.
Janae: How you can combat those myths, which I really appreciated because I like being able to Combat those in my everyday [00:40:00] life when people are bringing things up. I can say actually that's not true. Can we maybe update our beliefs update our systems from maybe more archaic feelings, um, and opinions, which is really helpful.
Janae: Another thing that I think was big for me. to step towards more body acceptance was allowing myself to be a part of that movement even though I am and always have been in the stereotypical What society wants your body to look like shape doesn't mean that I? Haven't had similar messages around what my body is supposed to look like and have similar feelings around needing and wanting to change um My body and I felt for a really long time that I wasn't allowed to step into those kinds of spaces because I wasn't deserving enough or I didn't belong.
Janae: Um, but really within the last few years, it's been a step in that [00:41:00] direction of saying it really impacts all of us. I can have a lot of empathy and understanding for people who are in different bodies that are getting subjugated to more stigma. And also understand that I have similar experiences. We're never all going to have the same experiences and it doesn't invalidate how we've all gone through life and been impacted similarly.
Janae: Um, so yeah, I think that was a big thing for me is being able to say it's okay to still have these feelings even if it doesn't feel like I'm quote unquote supposed to. And take up space and join those communities. And a big step for that was joining the BodyKind community and starting the switch for my yoga practices towards body neutral and body kind ways of talking through movement and creating movement spaces that are dismantling [00:42:00] fatphobia and dismantling the wellness, uh, influences.
Janae: is a very heavily impacted by weight and diet and stigma stuff. So I think those have been really big things for me. A lot of learning from other people and creators and authors and then dismantling my own feelings around, am I allowed to care about this? Am I allowed to step into these spaces, even if I don't feel like it?
Janae: I fit the, like, I didn't, I didn't feel like I fit in either category. So yeah, I think that that was helpful for me.
Penney: Yeah, Janae, I love your idea of, of education around that. For me, a piece of that that was really important comes from more of a place of indignation. The more research I do around what is said in large [00:43:00] corporations around how to, I don't know, like psychological warfare around getting us to Buy into diet cultures or a choice for them not to provide healthier food or have more support around it because people are weak, they're still going to buy the things that are that don't feed their body or have empty calories, so they don't need to make any changes because they're not afraid of people changing.
Penney: And that bothers me. I get really indignant that they don't realize that society can change, and that we can fight back, and take back our bodies, and our view of our bodies, and our own culture. Mm hmm.
Janae: Yeah, I think it's, it does, it lights a fire within me when I hear about the awful things that, you know, People within the government or people within media or [00:44:00] companies and products and things that they are using, like you said, psychological warfare against, um, against us and how horrible that is to know that people are doing that and we're actively fighting on it.
Janae: Yeah, like we're getting, we're prey. I hate that.
Penney: Yes, and that creates indignation for me. I want to push back against that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah,
McKenzie: I agree. Like, um, both of your perspectives on this is really great and like you were saying, um, with the Aubrey Gordon book about like that we're learning more things about how our bodies are impacted by our genetics and how weight is impacted by our genetics.
McKenzie: And you think like, okay, if we're learning those things because Right now it's just kind of people say you're, you're too lazy to, to lose weight or if you try it harder, you would lose weight. It's [00:45:00] like, okay, well, we're learning these things about more and more about our genetics. So someone has to realize that we're going to have to update the world, you know, make it more friendly for people.
McKenzie: This isn't a matter of willpower. Yeah. Where, you know, we need to accommodate more people within the world. Mm hmm. And, I know on like what you were saying about the yoga and stuff that you teach and your perspective, you're, it's, you know, such a refreshing class to take because Janae is so good at making sure that everyone Is, you know, connecting in with their body Instead of having to, you know, just match the environment Which a lot of fitness classes feel that way Or to just, just do what you see [00:46:00] Janae is so good at teaching you to connect inward And then be able to, you know, empower yourself to make decisions for your own body And I feel like taking those classes is great because you can take that outside of the classroom.
McKenzie: So it's a really great skill set. And I remember, um, one of my good friends, Jordan, had introduced me to Janae's classes. And I remember, like, me and Jordan after class would be like, Should we tell Janae about the Bodykind community? I think she'd really like it. And I, um, I feel like I, like, Got enough courage to be able to be like hey Would you want to do this thing?
McKenzie: Cuz it's always I don't know. I don't really I feel like I kind of shy away from promotion of things I'm doing But I I sensed that you would like [00:47:00] it so and then we talked on the the phone about Doing an event together. And I was like, finally, I'm talking to someone who like speaks the same language as me and it was so exciting.
McKenzie: It was.
Janae: I remember that phone call. It was supposed to be like a somewhat quick check in around what we wanted to do for the event and we talked for like, I think it was close to an hour and we just went off on so many random tangents of like, you know, this book or this idea and we should do something around this.
Janae: And yeah, it really was. It was fun to find that connection. And like you said, it's speaking the same language. Um, just because my background was within like and then starting into the yoga industry, it is very much so like you're moving your body into different shapes so that it can look a certain way and perform a certain way and trying to dismantle those kinds of thoughts within myself and It [00:48:00] really was something that I had to do for myself first, of changing, I'm not going to yoga classes so that I can be the best, or look a certain way, or follow the teacher exactly, and get the gold star.
Janae: Um, and switching that from, okay, how do I want to feel when I'm in the pose, how do I want to be while I'm in the class, what's my body trying to tell me while I'm there. It was a huge shift for me. Um, It's so funny remembering back to some of the first classes that I took it really was like looking around the room of who I was next to and saying, am I doing it as well as them?
Janae: Is my leg going higher than theirs? Am I balancing better than them? Like, and then leaving feeling exhausted because it was so much outward monitoring of watching everyone else while then trying to be perfect for yourself and make your body do it perfectly. And then the switch away from that, it's such a more restorative or, um, Um, [00:49:00] calming practice, even when it is something that's at a quicker pace.
Janae: Um, and I, and I love reflecting on that and kind of laughing at myself a little bit of like, wow, come so far, such a difference, right,
McKenzie: right. And I think perfectionism and kind of diet culture and all of that, or they're so closely tied because. When you're on a diet, I mean, you have to do it exactly that way, right?
McKenzie: Or there's something wrong. Yeah. Well, you're doing it wrong. Yeah. And so perfectionism is so tied up in all of that. Um, one of the other concepts that I really enjoy from like the Body Trust, um, Body Trust program is to focus on doing, I think it's, is it C plus or C minus work? So when you're making these changes and trying to, To get more connected with yourself, like, you don't, [00:50:00] you shouldn't try to do it perfectly.
McKenzie: Because that's such a, a holdover from diet culture. You know, yeah, and I, I struggled with that a lot at the beginning too. Where it's like, okay, well now I needed to be doing intuitive eating perfectly. Yeah. And, there's, yeah, it's just, there's no point in trying to do that. It's not helpful.
Janae: Yeah, it is funny where you realize those things that you're trying to run away from, you're bringing into the new practices and new ideals that you're, you're trying to build.
Janae: Um, yeah, old habits. That's hard to break. Right. Yeah, break those cycles.
Penney: Are we all right if we move into our tips? Good place? Let's do it. Okay. Uh, so our first tip, which I think we've covered already a little bit, but we can reiterate if there's anything more we want to add, but what are the behaviors and mindsets that support a more positive body image?
McKenzie: It's a good question.
McKenzie: Yeah, I think we have talked, [00:51:00] talked around this. Um, but I think some of the things that I got. When I was starting into intuitive eating and body trust, like what I just said, don't shoot for perfectionism. You don't need to be perfect at accepting your body. It is a journey. You're gonna have ups and downs.
McKenzie: You're gonna have bad body days. That's totally okay. Um, another thing, like, I think in the intuitive eating that really helped me was, One of the concepts is joyful movement. So, working towards moving your body with joy, not as a punishment and not as something to change your body. That's going to help a lot with body acceptance.
McKenzie: And that kind of has that key of listening into your body. And that's really what this whole thing is about, is diet culture [00:52:00] separates us from our body. Um, It teaches us to not listen in to our hunger cues because we can't trust ourselves to know when we're hungry or how much to eat. It teaches us to ignore our, our desire for movement because really, we just need to be on a treadmill for two hours.
McKenzie: You know, so coming back in tune with your body is one of the greatest gifts, I think, of body acceptance. So. Learning what you like, learning to feel when you're full, or what makes you satisfied. All of those things are great steps towards body acceptance. And I'm sure I missed a lot of things, but those are just a few that are on my mind.
Penney: Mckenzie, I was just thinking you nailed it.
Janae: That was beautiful, that was wonderful, yeah. But it is such a disconnect, um, and it's really hard to [00:53:00] which is why I love that that's what that, um, program is called. It's really hard to gain, regain that body trust, trust within yourself, um, and separate. Why am I motivated to do this movement?
Janae: Is it because it's something that I like or is it something that I've been told I'm supposed to do because it's the most effective way to lose weight or get a six pack or whatever? Um, and yeah, can we change the narrative and how hard that is to slowly switch the way you're thinking about movement? Um, yeah.
Janae: Yeah, that's a big one.
Penney: I thought that was, I thought that was really well said. Alright, our next tip, how are you modeling body positivity in your relationship with friends, families, kids?
McKenzie: Yes, this is, this is a really good question. So for me, I, so I guess with family, I don't, I don't talk [00:54:00] about diets with family. Um, I don't talk about, um, striving for weight loss in a way that that seems to me to be aesthetic. Um, I try to be there to support. Everyone has different goals. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with needing to lose weight or wanting to lose weight.
McKenzie: But, if the conversation is about aesthetics, that's just, I, that's where I kind of have my, um, boundary. Um, so, that's one thing. I have a, a toddler, and so this is on my mind a lot when I think about what kind of parent I want to be and how I want to model a relationship with body and, And what we eat and all of that.
McKenzie: It's really beautiful to see little humans because they don't have [00:55:00] any body worries. It's so sweet. Um, Lily is constantly just like pulling up her shirt. She bangs on her belly, laughs. She does the same thing to me and Johnny. It's, I love it. You know, it's like. When does that stop? It's kind of sad to think, but I try to.
McKenzie: Or at least my intention is to not have any good or bad foods in the house. Everything is food. There isn't like a you do this to earn food or this is something you only get in this case. I believe that if you like put certain foods on a pedestal everyone wants them. Everything is part of a normal diet.
McKenzie: Everything is food. So, I don't believe in doing that, and then, um, just having, you know, joyful movement as a family, and not talking about [00:56:00] my body in a bad way, or, or mentioning her body in a bad way, like, Oh, I think you're too big, or, or things like that. So, it's gonna be an ongoing process. I'm learning a lot at the same time, but that's really how I hope to to support Lily as she's growing up.
Janae: Yeah, big goals and wonderful. I know we were talking earlier about always taking steps forward of reflecting back on how society or our families were when we were growing up and then always looking at K, are we were doing the best we could then and we're hoping that we can take strides and steps forward and do the best we can now with the information and the And what we have now, and trying not to, like you said, add the perfectionism into it, like there's going to be things that, [00:57:00] Lily in 20 years looks back and is like, why did you do this?
McKenzie: Exactly.
Penney: Yeah, believe me, there definitely will be. And I, we talked about this in parenting episodes, it is so important as a parent to say, yep, I messed up on that, or you know what, this was the information I had, I did my best with it. And really demonstrate that compassion and understanding that we really always do the best of what we can, what we have and the information at the time, especially as parents.
Penney: So just remembering every day to do our best, but also owning it of, Oh, I wish I would have done this different because I can see how that would have impacted you differently. And I would have loved to have given you that gift if I'd had it to give to you.
Penney: Yeah.
McKenzie: Exactly. Yeah, I think that's a great way of saying it.
McKenzie: It's like, we're all gonna try our best and some of that's not gonna connect and, and some of that's gonna be, uh, why did you do that? You know? I, I [00:58:00] don't know why you did that or I don't like that and yeah, like for me, it's like just trying to do my best and not expect myself to be perfect at it because it's just, yeah, it's one of those things, not possible.
Janae: Yeah,
Janae: yeah, I think with me around modeling body positivity in my relationships Um, I think when I first started down this path, it was a lot of vigilante, indignant rage and anger that I would be really passionate with people about. And recognizing that there's a time and place for those kinds of things has been really important for me, where it's really hard to model things for people who you have excluded, or, , made them feel like you think that they're wrong, or, , You know, it's really hard to make a compromise or have [00:59:00] conversations with people when you've placed yourself on opposite ends of, the argument.
Janae: And so trying, for me, trying to model just by the way I'm showing up, and then having, you know, a certain amount of things, kind of like you were saying, Mckenzie, of like boundaries around, I'm not going to add to conversations that, Lead back to diet or body shaming or fat phobia, calling things out when I feel like it's warranted.
Janae: , but then not beating myself up when I don't feel like I have the energy or mental space to call things out or feel not empowered in that moment to do so. Because there are certain relationships and places where You know, the outcome is already going to be bad if you do that or it's going to put you in a situation where you don't feel physically or mentally safe anymore.
Janae: And I think that when we really want to be, um, [01:00:00] light holders of this ideal and pass the torch or, you know, be people who this is a really strong value and you feel like you need to hold to it really strongly. Um, it can be really exhausting and I think that there needs to be some compassion towards yourself around Sometimes you're going to have to step back and allow people to get on that journey in their own time, and you trying to berate or force them into it is not helpful.
Janae: So I've learned that trying to be there, um, Um, and not control people's mindsets around things is helpful. And then recognizing that there's some things that it's like that's, that may never change and trying to then realign your boundaries of how you want to interact in those relationships. Like there are certain people that I don't do lunch dates with because I know that it's going to turn into things like that or, um, [01:01:00] I try and lessen the amount of time that I'm spending with them in certain situations.
Janae: Setting those kinds of boundaries for myself just to protect my own mental Um, so yeah, I think that modeling for me has changed to just more trying to embody that mindset in the way that I'm showing up and less about trying to be a vigilante, self justice warrior of changing everyone around me, uh, the culture in everyone's minds.
Janae: Cause it's exhausting and it's really hard to do that constantly. And often it, like I said, it's not the way to go about changing minds.
Penney: Yeah,
Penney: modeling far more impactful. Alright, so our last tip, what skills do you implement to keep body neutrality while on social media? So I'm just going to take a bow out on this one because I really don't do a lot of social media.
Penney: so, I don't have a lot to contribute.
Penney: Oh [01:02:00] no, like, this is something I think is really, really helpful. I kind of mentioned it at the beginning, but what I think is a good way to handle social media When you want to have a more inclusive feed is to really follow some different accounts and to unfollow any accounts that, you know, make you feel bad about yourself.
Penney: I don't need to follow people who are going to be saying that, you know, like everyone needs to lose weight or something like that. So I just follow accounts that, that make me feel happy. Your social media really, I mean, you shouldn't. be feeling like crap every time you, you get on your social media. So, one thing I did that was extremely helpful is when I was pregnant, I followed a bunch of, it was like either plus [01:03:00] size pregnancy or different accounts like that because I was so used to only seeing thin people pregnant.
Penney: And I knew that my body was not going to look the same when I was pregnant. Like I wasn't going to have Just that, you know, perfect little, uh, bump and everything. And so, I followed a bunch of accounts and it made me feel so much better actually seeing some people who look similarly and also looked happy.
Penney: You know, because what I heard a lot is, well, you know, to have a healthy pregnancy, you should lose weight before. And so, I was nervous. So, being able to see people happy, healthy, and similar bodies made me, it just, it was a relief. And so, I, I think the same, the same way. Just follow accounts that you can, you know, kind of see [01:04:00] yourself in, and these people look happy.
Penney: They look healthy. it helps because you don't see a lot of, you know, fat bodies or even just diverse bodies around on social media sometimes. And so, it can, it can help for you to be able to go, like, to be able to see that these people look amazing. They look beautiful, you know? And another thing I've done is, like, I buy a lot of fat positive, body positive art.
Penney: It just helps me to To know that, like, my body's beautiful, and when there's a whole, you know, world thing that it's not, and that fat bodies can't be beautiful, you have to do some work yourself to surround yourself with those kind of images. And I feel like my husband probably thinks I'm weird. I'm always buying, like, [01:05:00] naked fat lady art.
Penney: And I, I love it. It just, it makes me feel happy and, like, That I can be beautiful in my body. Yeah. So I think surround yourself with all the images that make you feel happy, seen, beautiful. It's important.
Penney: I love that idea around Art McKenzie because you think about once upon a time, those were the images that were painted and that is what was beautiful.
Penney: And that was social media, right? From the, from the view of, depending on the era we're talking about with painting, that beautiful, voluptuous, full bodies were beautiful. Mm
Janae: hmm. Yeah.
Janae:
Janae: Yeah. I like, , those kinds of images, too. And, celebrating not only the art, but then you feel good supporting the artist, too, doing those kinds of things, which is always really helpful.
Janae: Um, [01:06:00] yeah. I think that very similarly for me around body neutrality while on social media is realizing if there are people that I'm stepping into that comparison stuff around, I might, um, mute them. Like if it's family or people that I do care about and they're not. Doing anything in a certain way, but like, just posting and showing their bodies as they are, but then I find myself comparing myself to them, just muting them for a little bit, and then taking time to ask myself, why does seeing their body like that make me feel bad about mine?
Janae: And, you know, what is it that's feeling triggering around that, and how can I think through or process those emotions? Um, I have a very strict, if you post before and after pictures, Uh, you get muted or I don't follow you anymore. . Yep. Because I find I felt the same way [01:07:00] that really triggering and I hate that.
Janae: Um, and so, yeah, I think that another thing that was really helpful for me as a yoga teacher was when I was first learning or stepping into social media in the yoga space, all of the creators. Look the same, white, thin, 20 to 30 year old people doing these really advanced crazy poses and feeling really unseen in that, um, and just icky about That was what was being shown, and so making a real effort in, following yoga teachers who are in different bodies, different races, and body types, and age.
Janae: I've gotten some of the best, , teaching skills by observing elderly [01:08:00] or older demographic yoga teachers. , because the way that they create the different movements so that it adapts to different body types is amazing. ,
Janae: I really love following yoga teachers who have other, , disability needs or excess needs in like wheelchairs or things like that.
Janae: It's just really amazing to be able to look at the movement as creatively as possible. Saying, if you aren't teaching to a 25 year old athlete. Because you're not. Like, I want to teach to the general population and the general population is very, very diverse and challenging myself to think outside of the box and have creativity about the way that you're teaching the poses that you're doing, the way you're teaching the poses, how you're talking about them, and , learning a lot.
Janae: Because I didn't learn any of that in my teacher training. [01:09:00] Um. At all. Like, you learn anatomy that's based off of a certain body type, and all of the people within my training were a certain body type, and I think that if you, again, if you're wanting to teach to the world or to your community, recognizing that that's The way to go about having inclusive classes, um, and so I did a lot of changing my social media and to follow those kinds of people.
Janae: Another thing I did was, this isn't really around social media, but just doing extra trainings, teacher trainings and things so that I could learn. I could say, okay, I'm not in a body that looks like that's an older body. I'm not in a bigger body. I'm not in a physically disabled body. Um. Can I learn from people who are in those bodies, so I know how to help [01:10:00] those people if they, if slash when they show up to my classes.
Janae: And it was really empowering because when people then showed up like that, I didn't feel freaked out about, Oh gosh, I don't know how to teach these people. It's like, yeah, I'm going to anticipate that they're going to be there. And then being able to say, I know how to help as best as I can. My philosophy is always.
Janae: You know more about your body than I do, so really you're the true teacher in that moment, but trying to help guide in the best way that I can, I think that that was really helpful for me to be able to say, I'm going to look outside of the norm of teaching and teachers to find the people that are doing more inclusive and body positive work in that.
Janae: Because wellness spaces are just so seeped in diet culture bullshit, so being able to find anything outside of that and break the norm of that culture was really important for [01:11:00] me. So,
Janae: yeah. I, yeah, I absolutely love that. That's such a, you know, I just really appreciate that about you, is that you, you, like, do the work of opening the space up instead of just, Being like, well, this is me, and this is how I do yoga, so if you don't do yoga like me, then I don't know how to help you.
Janae: You know, I think it's just such a great mindset to look outside and try to make everything feel more inclusive for people. That's why You're a great friend, but that's why I also just love having you in body kind community.
Janae: Thank you. That's very sweet Penney I do wonder what your perspective on counseling people through body acceptance or body neutrality has been like from your [01:12:00] professional experience or like diet stuff or even maybe some body dysmorphia or Uh, eating disorder stuff, like something, yeah, you know what I'm getting at.
Penney: Yeah, I would say, I mean, those topics would take a lot of time to do some justice. I would say probably my biggest, uh, like cover at all, and I'm not gonna touch on the body dysmorphia or eating disorders, I think that's a bigger topic than maybe what we have time for. But definitely the self compassion and really combating shame and noticing, you know, that first step of mindfulness of noticing when we're sitting in shame in our body and around our body or viewing things that are bringing up shame and stepping into compassion and it.
Penney: And challenging that perfectionist mindset is a really big piece for me. And I do also challenge the idea [01:13:00] around, you know, this is how you're supposed to lose weight. I had a client just this week that said, my doctor said, this is really easy. You just have to count how many calories you're going in and how many you're going out and you'll lose weight and you'll be fine.
Penney: And that triggers something so deep in me around how just not true that is and how unfortunate it is that the medical community continues to do that and the feelings that come up for people in there. You know, in quotes, not successful. Uh, so I think a lot of education, a lot of self compassion, and trying to change beliefs.
Penney: Like we said at the beginning, if we group together and we change mindset, we create change and just doing that one person at a time in order to keep the movement flowing. Mm hmm.
Janae: When you're guiding people through that mindfulness, what do you notice is helpful, like, if you could give? Uh, strategy or a [01:14:00] skill or anything like that.
Penney: Well, I would say the first thing to notice is that it's hard to be in our bodies because we're not good at that and we're really taught really from infancy to ignore how we feel in our body and to shut it down.
Penney: And it's really scary for people to step back into it. So one of the first things is do it slow. Be really understanding with your body as you're trying to do that because it could be overwhelming. And start to look for tiny, tiny moments in our body and really just learning to, to understand the difference between sensation, emotions, and thoughts.
Penney: Uh, because that's big. We tend to look at everything as like feelings when there's different parts of that. So what am I feeling? And then what are the sensations in my body? So that we can start to check back in on what is hunger? What movement do I want to do? What does bring me happiness? What does bring me joy?
Penney: And how do I push back against those things that don't bring that into my body? [01:15:00]
Janae: I love that. That's a really interesting, those three thoughts, sensations, and feelings, like separating those out. that's an interesting practice I had never heard of, so I love that.
McKenzie: Yeah, I think that's great advice. It is hard to connect sometimes into your body, and I think going slow is a great way to get into it.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah, that is definitely something that I learned through my, uh, trauma training around yoga is if you try and dive head first all the way in, it feels extremely overwhelming and it can cause a big shutdown. Um, so yeah, allowing yourself to take it slow, um, and yeah, not overwhelm yourself with it.
Penney: Yeah, because
Penney: it definitely will push backwards. We won't continue to move forward. So a little bit at a time, let it in. It's like sipping and not gulping. [01:16:00]
Janae: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And when we're talking through self compassion practices, um, Kristen Neff has the whole theory around what she calls backdraft, , which is like when you're taking those steps towards, , Self compassion and it can trigger similar to like a fire when you open up a new door and fresh oxygen hits and then it causes a huge big explosion of fire.
Janae: Um, I think that's a similar feeling of like you're taking big gulps and then all of a sudden you're drowning or you're Um, opening the door really fast and then all of a sudden there's a huge backdraft and you feel like you've been blown backwards or, or got burned or, um, taken 10 steps back or whatever that is.
Penney: Yeah, I talked about it, uh, with, from a fire hose, right? If somebody says they're thirsty and you hit them in the face with a fire hose, they're probably not going to really drink anything. But if you hand them [01:17:00] something with a straw, that's going to help meet the need. So how do we sip it and get what we need?
Penney: Instead of blasting and not getting what we need, but creating harm instead.
Janae: Yeah. Well, cool. Um, that's all the questions and tips that we have. So, thank you again, Mckenzie, for coming on and spending some time on your Sunday with us. do you have anything you want to talk about for the community? Or anything you want to plug or talk to the podcast community about?
McKenzie: Yeah, I will just kind of talk about some of the stuff we have got coming up. so we are We've just talked about some of the events that we want to do this year. We will definitely be doing a Scale Smash again. It is way fun. Even if you, you know, don't have any huge negative feelings about your scale, [01:18:00] you can come and Destroy some other stuff if we do the if we do the Rage Room again.
McKenzie: Yeah, it's fun And then we'll do the the Fat Babe pool party The best way to follow the events is definitely to join the Facebook group Body kind community. It is a closed group. So I will have to accept your requests, but Definitely happy to have more people. It's a really great space very friendly and And we're doing things Basically throughout the year, in person, in virtual, so, join the group, come hang out with, with all of us, it is great, and I so appreciate you guys inviting me to talk about this, this is, you know, one of my favorite things to talk about, so, thank you, it is always a pleasure talking to you guys.
Janae: Yeah, and we'll be sure to have the link to find that Facebook group in our show [01:19:00] notes. Thank you. And, yeah. We really highly encourage everyone to go and join, even if you're joining as a Lurker. If maybe coming into the in person or virtual events feels overwhelming, it's just good to even be in this space.
Janae: Um, so yeah. Cool. Well, thanks for joining us. , thanks for listening. And, yeah, I don't think we have anything else, so we'll catch you in our next episode. Awesome.
Janae: Thanks, everyone. Bye.
