Ep. 27 Can Love Last? Predictors of Divorce Explored Through 'Married at First Sight'
Unraveling the Knot: Uncovering the 6 Predictors of Divorce Through Reality TV It's often said that truth is stranger than fiction, but when it comes to understanding the complexities of relationships and the subtle nuances that predict divorce, reality TV might just provide some of the best real-life examples.
In this episode, we'll break down some key insights and concepts as illustrated by the reality show "Married at First Sight." We discuss the predictors of divorce, focusing on a couple's communication and body language issues. This episode highlights the importance of positive need statements, self-soothing, attunement, and building trust in relationships. We emphasize the impact of these factors on relationship dynamics and potential divorce outcomes for 'Married at First Sight' couple Cameron and Clare.
Continue learning from past couple's communication skills episodes
Ep 13: Mapping Your Nervous System -Flooding
Ep. 20: How to Create a Culture of Appreciation?
Ep. 27 Can Love Last? Predictors of Divorce Explored Through 'Married at First Sight'
Janae: [00:00:00] welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a gen X or antimalarial and a mother and daughter join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and Penney. Hi, and welcome.
Janae: Welcome to episode. We're going to be doing something a little bit different today. we're excited to start out trying this new format and what we're going to be doing is breaking down some of the six predictors of divorce. And we're going to do that by watching a clip or listening through a clip from a reality TV show from lifetime called married at first sight. And we are in the newest season seasons. 17 Yes.
Janae: Um, so this is a fight between Cameron and Claire. It's their first argument that they have after getting married. And if you've never watched married at first sight, basically the premise of the show is, uh, three experts, a pastor, a [00:01:00] counselor, and a sex therapist. Uh, interview a bunch of individuals who applied to be on the show and then they pair them to get married and they, the first time they meet is at the altar. And then they send them on a honeymoon and then they have them move in together.
Janae: And then at the end of eight weeks, they decide on camera, whether they want to stay married or get a divorce. So that is. The premise of the show and. We're going to just play the clip of Cameron and Claire talking. And we're going to start to break down some of the things that we're noticing, um, pitfalls within their communication and things that are already starting to predict. Uh, things aren't going well. Yes, absolutely. So, um, Penney's going to go ahead and play that for us now.
Penney: And we'll just pause. Comments.
Clare: A little bit. [00:02:00]
Cameron: Yeah.
Penney: So that's probably our first moment right there. Uh, an observation. Um, with Cameron in general is his body language is flooded. He's anxious. If you could just feel his anxiety. I think every time he is on camera. Yeah. And his facial expression. If you go watch the season or this episode. So if you're watching it on lifetime it's episode four, if you're watching it on Amazon with after parties, it's episode seven. Um, his facial expression is like a sure, like sarcastic.
Janae: Yeah.
Janae: And he's like, yeah, that's fair. Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, maybe we even give some context. Around what are the six predictors that we're going to be talking about? And then also maybe the lead up to this fight. Sure.
Penney: So the lead-up to the fight is, uh, Cameron I think is like six, three, [00:03:00] and Claris five foot.
Penney: So there's a, uh, big height difference between them. And when they pack for their honeymoon, Cameron brings a carry on and Claire brings a very large suitcase that goes up to her waist. And he's made several comments and some of the other participants have also about how big her suitcases and how it's like half her size. And, um, so that's kind of the lead into the whole suitcase situation and our predictors that work in to use our, um, the low commitment that they have eight weeks before they could get out of this.
Penney: Where in a real relationship, you're, you're committing to a longterm. We're going to talk about our four horsemen of defensiveness, stonewalling criticism, and flooding. And then is that a four horsemen? I feel like. That wrong contempt. That's right. And does that rock. So let me go with that again. So contempt criticism, the stonewalling. At defensiveness.
Penney: And then we're going to talk about flooding, which is a separate one, um, and body language and that [00:04:00] attunement piece with body language, the failed repair attempts, um, in the relationship. Especially during arguments, that is a big predictor of divorces. John Gottman has research that if there's conflict happening, the ability to make those repairs at the right moment and to call what he called those sliding door moments to step through and create connection, instead of argument is a big deal. And then the last one is bad.
Penney: Memories is fights build up and build up and we don't make any repair attempt or it's beyond just a repair attempt. We go into doing like an aftermath of a fight where we actually make repairs and let that go. Our brains, hold on to those bad memories and those bad feelings until we actually process those out. Together.
Janae: Yep. Yeah. Okay. So the first thing we noticed was some body language from Cameron and some sarcasm coming from him. Yes, which is a form of defensiveness. Um, so we're right off the bat. We're getting defensiveness. Um, and I'm trying to remember, did she, she hasn't used a
Penney: criticism quite yet. I don't think so.
Penney: I think it's coming though. Yeah. lets listen. [00:05:00]
Cameron: Help me at all to the
Penney: airport.
Clare: I don't know where that is.
Cameron: I am sorry. are you not able?
Clare: No, I'm very capable. I'm just saying. It's a kind gesture to help and you definitely weren't helping me.
Cameron: you weren't helpingme with my bag.
Janae: And there's some defensive.
Clare: But I think that common knowledge is that you help with.
Cameron: I've been told it's.
Clare: It would've been nice to have the assistance. With that, with that large
Clare: bag. You know what I mean?
Penney: So wait a minute. I think there,
Janae: she was trying a little bit to step out a criticism of. Um,
Penney: Oh, and I don't think so. I feel like that was that righteous indignation, like. I'm I'm better. And I know more. Yeah. For way to handle the situation. Yes. And men are supposed to do this because in my world, that's how it's supposed to be.
Penney: I feel like that was [00:06:00] both of them, that righteous indignation piece of, of a. Uh, defensiveness really? That's what righteous. Disintegration stance, right? Because I know more than you. And I am. More. I don't know, I know the right way to do things. I am defending my right to say that this is how it is, which again, creates that disconnect.
Janae: Yeah. So we get her first criticism of you didn't help me at all with my bag. Um, which is the true sign of criticism, is that you statement. Um, and then him jumping right into defensiveness. Well, you didn't help me. You didn't offer to help me with my bag. Yeah.
Penney: And then her saying, you know, it's the right thing to do and him saying, well, in my world, this is the right thing to do.
Penney: So another defensive statement on his part.
Janae: Yeah. Both of them stepping into that region. Ignation like you're saying, um, And he's like, well, the way that I always knew it was, you don't assume that women can't handle their things and she's like, well, it's just a gen general courteous thing that you would ask and [00:07:00] help.
Janae: Yeah.
Penney: Yeah. So maybe what we'll do since this is new one, we're learning, we'll break down all of the here's the predictors, and then we'll talk about what they could've done. How'd they could've done a different or better. Is that working? That's a good, okay. So should I keep playing? Perfect.
Cameron: I'm right here, with your suitcase
Clare: I think Cameron is getting a sense that I am pretty independent. But yeah, there's part of me. That's like, I wish he would just be like, Hey, do you need assistance? Or do you need, you know, and those kinds of things. I think. Draw me closer to someone is when they're really asking like, Hey, where are you at?
Clare: What do you need?
Clare: Thank you car.
Cameron: You're not angry.
Cameron: About me telling you that I wish I would've had help
Janae: maybe pause right there. That was a stonewalling
Penney: for him to say, I'm not angry. Right. But if you're watching his body language, he's also completely flooded. Yeah. Um, the coming up the stairs I'm right here. And. It's interesting. I'm thinking as she's doing [00:08:00] her little talk there to the side, um, and if you're watching it, you can see like the, it takes you out of the clip.
Penney: And she's just talking about that.
Janae: That's a pretty, yeah.
Penney: Separately. Yeah. Um, that like, we don't have a crystal ball. He doesn't know how to ask you what you need. That's not his job. Right. I think we can check in with our partner. But also, if you need something, it's our job to tell them.
Janae: Yeah. And I think it's funny that, um, when she's talking to the producer and he's not around, she uses what we will use as our antidote turning criticism into a wish.
Janae: She literally says, I wish, yes, he would have done this. And it's like, okay, how do we learn how to do that in the moment with our partner?
Penney: Yeah. Instead of in hindsight, when we're talking with somebody else. Yeah, and they really just want to bring up, we talk about how. Uh, really, this becomes like a battle that I talked about that love is a battlefield and that song love is a battlefield because this is the perfect moment of that.
Penney: We're seeing the, like about put up your shield defend and slash [00:09:00] put your sword and criticize, and his, he does less criticizing other than that righteous indignation, which was really a defensive statement. But felt that like, Yeah, he's probably just stonewalled behind his wall. Like he ducks behind his wall to hide and then he comes out and doesn't end himself.
Penney: Cause he's so flooded. And the only thing we're getting from him is really defensive statements. So. Um, so yeah. Okay. And then we get to play again. Yeah.
Cameron: I
Clare: appreciate you. We're also kind of running away
Penney: from me. Another criticism.
Clare: This is all goes back to communication. Like I had to remind you, like, Hey, I'm sure I'm going to be behind you. But Hey, I would like to wait and I did see you make that change. You. I did start to wait for me,
Janae: which I appreciate that's a repair.
Clare: Is there anything that's bothering you that you feel like you wish that I was doing better? No, I [00:10:00] think you're amazing.
Janae: And depends.
Penney: Okay.
Penney: So yeah, definitely back to a defensive statement. No, I think you're amazing where she did make a repair attempt there. Um, her, I think you did a really good job with this after I said something. So criticism made a repair attempt. That would be one of those sliding door moments that he could have stepped into it with.
Penney: You know, I'm glad you noticed that I had tried and, um, finding ways to build on that moment that she's trying to make it that's really that sliding door that he didn't step through. Instead he continued to be defensive.
Janae: I think you had, could have, could have been like, uh, Yeah, thanks for noticing that.
Janae: I did try to correct that behavior. Yeah. You could then step right into like, what were his needs in this situation? And,
Penney: yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So do we want to keep on. Okay.
Penney: Sound
Clare: sarcastic. No, it really truly, is there something that's annoying? You. You that you feel like? Cause I feel like we, we are kind of like comfortable with each other, but not [00:11:00] to the point where I was like, Like we don't see each other romantically at this moment.
Penney: Right. So I think again, I think that's another repair attempt with her of saying, Hey, what do you need. Uh, It being attuned to the partner, meaning maybe she could be watching his body language or really understanding he's not okay.
Janae: Yeah, and I think. She's slightly doing that in the, like, that sounded like sarcasm. Really?
Janae: What is. You know, what's going on? What do you need? I think she's trying to. Um, but also recognizing that at this moment, he's very flooded. Yeah. So being able to step into an honest and open conversation is not really accessible to him at this point.
Penney: Yeah. I don't know if it's accessible to him in that. That they're not attuned to, they haven't built trust.
Penney: I don't know that he feels we can talk about difference between trust and trustworthiness. Right. Um, Um, the Gottman's research shows trust, meaning that, uh, you're [00:12:00] gonna, I'm gonna get these backwards trust, meaning that you've got my back. And that I can trust that you're going to be there for me and trustworthiness, meaning that you're going to sacrifice for the relationship.
Penney: So I don't know that Cameron and Claire have built up any trust. If we were to do a trust measure on them, I'm going to guess it's pretty low. Because neither one of them thinks, Hey, you've got my back. Or you're going to sacrifice your own needs for the relationship. She doesn't think he's going to sacrifice his own needs around the suitcase to take care of her needs. And he doesn't think she's going to sacrifice, not packing a ton of stuff in order to put the relationship first or . Um, that she's going to say, you know, I packed the suitcase.
Penney: I can have some accountability here. I think we're definitely missing the accountability piece. It's part of this as also it goes with our horsemen, right? Um, the opposite of defensiveness is accountability in there. I haven't heard accountability on either part. Just full defensiveness. So. Sorry. We're gonna.
Janae: Like less accountability on her part of like, yeah, I over-packed and I could have used. More [00:13:00] time walking through at a slower pace together.
Janae: Maybe even some help lifting or moving it around. Um, and accountability from him of like, yeah, I didn't notice that I wasn't attuned well to you and I, um, you know, Wasn't fully responding to your requests for help.
Penney: Absolutely. I would say again, um, accountability is an antidote to defensiveness, so it's another way to step out of that. We're kind of stepping into some of the cures instead of the, the issues, but that's okay.
Penney: We can throw it out.
Janae: And then just generate it organically.
Penney: Okay, we're ready. Yeah. Okay.
Cameron: All right.
Penney: His facial expression. So
Clare: it's not as though. Growing that a little bit. Um, and working on that and trying to kind of. Figure that part out of us, because like I said, we have not touched that aspect. Um, yeah, like this.
Cameron: Do you have a plan of how we can get past that?
Clare: Being [00:14:00] here, experiencing things together, doing things together could definitely help that. And I'm going to
Clare: try my.
Penney: Yes. I want to pause there for a minute. Cause I do think that was another sliding door moment that he actually made an attempt to connect. So that was a turning towards moment. Yeah, I think that was great. Yeah. Of him. Getting curious, like, do we have a plan for this? How do we want to do that? I think it's interesting.
Penney: Who said, do you have a plan for that instead of a, how are we going to do that as a couple? But I do think in his body language relaxed, a little of you, if you were watching that, that he's like, yeah. How do we do that together? And. And what does that look like? So it loves the curiosity that he put into that and that attempt to connect.
Penney: That was a. Definitely.
Janae: Yeah. I'm going to give a slight aside here, but it's been interesting. Watching episodes of this in different seasons of this, the push and pull that comes from who's choosing to make intimacy, moments. Who's choosing to push it forward. Who's pulling back. And it's [00:15:00] interesting.
Janae: The amount of women that have put the pressure on the men to be quote unquote, the manly man, that's going to . Make the, um, step forward and make the attempt towards intimacy. But then if they don't do it immediately or the right way, then they shy away and then they use it as like a little bit.
Janae: Now I'm not comfortable with it. So then the guy ends up in this weird limbo and then they don't end up moving
Penney: forward. Yeah, I think those are interesting dynamics and I haven't watched any other season. This is the only, uh, The only parts that I have watched. In fact, I have now watched a total of the four episodes that we are watching now.
Penney: So, uh, yeah, I do think the intimacy, so some background with them, he's talked about really his love language is more physical and that is how he expresses affection. And finds connection and hers and coming from her family is very verbal that they tell each other things and they check in and she also talks about them doing a lot of verbal roasting of each other.
Penney: And if you're a part of the family, you're going to get roasted. [00:16:00] Uh, so there is some, both sides of that dagger. It sounds like verbally within the family that she is used to. So. Um, verbal expression. is big for her. And his friends were very upfront with her in their little, meet the family meeting that he doesn't do well with affection and verbally.
Penney: He's not really open. And so there's going to have to be a different way to communicate that they're both aware of.
Janae: Yeah. And I think it's interesting that when she's saying. You know, I'm not very open to physical touch right now. So then he feels like he's in a position of saying, so what is your plan for moving forward?
Janae: And then it does take them out of the it's a we thing. It's both of us working towards it thing. Yeah.
Penney: On the wedding night, she gets in cute little jammies and gets into bed and he goes to get in the shower, comes back out in his robe. Um, And lays. And so she's talking to the producer, talking to the camera saying, you know, I don't know if maybe we'll get to cuddle, have some physical affection, not wanting, [00:17:00] um, intercourse. But wanting to have some physical touch. And they had had a interesting exchange where, you know, they had talked about, this is my language.
Penney: This is your language. And, and I don't know how far I wanted to go, but we'll see what happens. So he gets out of the shower, lays on top of the covers on the bed, in his robe. And says, you know, if you just stop talking, I'll probably just go to sleep. And she says, so I'll stop talking. And he goes to sleep. So really in that moment, I think she was hoping they would have a conversation about intimacy and they would discuss, you know, maybe cuddling or touching or anything.
Penney: And he is very like flooded, closed off, not even under the covers with her.
Janae: Interesting. The biggest thing that. Their challenge that they are going to face is. Him being flooded. And I think it's a flooding within the relationship, but also when he was talking to some of the experts when getting interviewed. He's here at any time and he's on camera.
Janae: Yeah. And I think that's something that we can also say that this [00:18:00] is an extreme form of pressure. Uh, that the body is going to start reacting and being flooded in that way of like, you know, there's cameras on me. There's, you know, at least probably three other people in the room of like two cameras operating and a producer in there.
Janae: That's like, Analyzing and watching everything that's happening. And so these are going to be. On a higher level of stakes than what is normal. Yeah. But yeah, I think that's a main thing that's within their relationship that it's like he's flooded all the time.
Penney: Yeah. Okay, so let's go in. So again, she's talking about intimacy and how he said, you know, how are we going to make that happen?
Cameron: I can unpause
Clare: hardest to make sure we get to that moment so that we don't leave.
Clare: Like, oh, we're moving into each other. And we've literally never even held hands before.
Cameron: Yeah, I agree.
Cameron: You didn't, you didn't tell me, didn't like to do that. [00:19:00]
Clare: The hand holding. It's totally fine. Okay, but there's a difference between that
Penney: and like, do you think she felt criticized there? He used to use statement. Was that a criticism you statement? And do you think she took it that way? I'm hearing a little bit of defense and it's come up for her. Like, no, that's not really what I meant.
Penney: I'm feeling so defensiveness. And I don't know if he meant that as a criticism, but you told me you didn't like that. Right? I think she's feeling some of that. I just want
Janae: some criticism. I think. So. I think it was coming from a little bit more curiosity place from him, but it landed as
Janae: criticism.
Janae: Yeah.
Clare: It's hard to explain. I
Cameron: have been asking. If Claire would be
Cameron: open
Cameron: to.
Cameron: Physical
Cameron: touch. I think getting. Pretty strong. Uh, no. So to hear her say that she wants. Uh, physical intimacy. Uh, now
Cameron: all I can say is I'm just confused.
Clare: Just because I'm strong. Does that mean that I don't want those things? [00:20:00]
Cameron: But I'm certainly not going to advance on someone. Doesn't seem to know what they want.
Clare: I've been with guys in the past, who don't express that they care. And to me that's very, very hurtful. Inside. I do want the physical affection. I do want, you know what I mean? Like.
Penney: So trying to let him. She's trying to let him into her inner world. Let me tell you about me and over those sliding door moments, right? Like, let me tell you about myself. Um, And the look on his face is very like, Hmm. Very, uh,
Janae: I'm confused and you're giving me very mixed signals. And almost, I think this also goes back to. I can't trust what you're saying.
Penney: Yeah. Maybe like we haven't built that trust that I don't feel like we have each other's backs yet. And I do think that's what she's talking about is that concept of trust and trustworthiness, like. I don't know yet that you've got my back and I've got yours and we haven't built [00:21:00] trust. And we're on honeymoon. And that's really tricky.
Penney: And how do we build that? Yeah.
Penney: Yeah.
Clare: I still feel
Clare: cared for.
Penney: And I think that okay. Again, very defensive. Okay.
Penney: Um, so.
Janae: I think that.
Janae: That was a. Interesting moment of like,
Janae: Her trying to. They're just tiptoeing around this intimacy thing. So hard.
Penney: Yeah. And around the suitcase because the suitcase came up before they even left.
Janae: Yeah, I think it's also like her saying, I need to feel emotional intimacy before. A lot of physical intimacy and him feeling like he wants to start with a physical intimacy. But she's like, I don't want to hold your hand until you know that.
Janae: Cause she specifically says I need to feel cared for. Yeah. [00:22:00] And the suitcase is now going to be cashed under her reasons of, he doesn't care for
Penney: me. Yeah, because you didn't help with my suitcase and you didn't wait for me. You left me in the airport while you wandered ahead with your long legs. And, and I do think he has some defensiveness coming up in his action because he doesn't walk with her, stand with her. It's that well, if you don't want to be physical with me and hold my hand, then. We're not physically together. That's some interesting, uh, body language there.
Penney: So I think our biggest antidote to talk about is the way that that could have started instead of saying. You take my suitcase. I'll take yours. We put that into a positive need statement. What's the formula for that is, um, I feel. About what I need. Um, specific call to action with our appreciations. And then add into that.
Penney: Um, in the most recent book I've been reading about Gottman, they talk about wish statements. So we talk about turning [00:23:00] complaints and the criticisms. I think the wish is a beautiful addition. To this positive need statement in the way that we can do
Janae: that. Yeah. So switching away from criticism and even away from complaints, um, which we've talked about before of, of having, instead of a criticism, we have a positive needs statement. Or we turn it into a complaint.
Janae: And in this more recent book, it's talking more about, you can even turn it into a wish. We would just so beautiful take you out of that complaining criticizing place altogether.
Penney: So if she's not great at positive need statements yet. Uh, thing she could have said at the very beginning was, um, I really wish you would take my suitcase upstairs, right? You could just turn that into a wish instead of you take mine, I'll take yours. Uh, positive need statement around that would have looked like, I feel I'm feeling not cared for. I think there could have been a feeling she's having, or I'm feeling abandoned, neglected alone. Um, so there's are I feel about what [00:24:00] I'm about? Uh, being left at the airport about not walking together, being together.
Penney: So it could have been that, um, because that's really what this is about. It's not about the suitcase, right? Um, and then I need, so be in a positive need statement. What did she need for him? What does she need from him in this moment? I need to feel cared about. And build trust with you. And then the call to action would be, could you do that by carrying my suitcase upstairs?
Janae: And I appreciate the times and the airport that you did slow down. Yeah.
Penney: That's our appreciation.
Penney: So finding a time when they did it really well. I know when I said, when I express my needs in the airport, you did such a good job. Of doing what I asked. I'm wondering if you could do that again this time and take my suitcase upstairs. And I think that would have opened the door for him to say yes or no. Definitely taken him out of defensiveness of, I didn't realize that you needed. Uh, that intimacy or closeness with [00:25:00] me, or I can see how carrying your suitcase would help you feel cared about. But it really brings up that like your actions around trust.
Penney: to build trust, create intimacy, which brings us closer to physical intimacy, which is really the direction they need to go.
Janae: I also really love the power of the positive needs statement, starting with. I feel. An abandoned. i feel alone, those are very specific. And we're, um, specific words that when you said out loud to a partner, it's like, whoa, okay. You know, most of us have a high enough level of empathy for humans in general, that we can hear someone say, I feel really alone right now. I feel abandoned.
Janae: I feel hurt. Um, and that's a lot more powerful of a way to step into that and break down those walls. And, and then it's followed up by what exactly happens. So you get specific about what it was that happened, that triggered that feeling. What they actually need. You can release all that [00:26:00] confusion that comes up when you step into this, in the wrong way.
Janae: Like, well, I don't even know what you want. Yeah. And then yeah, you end with the specific action and a appreciation. So then you don't have to step into it's all your fault or you never do anything, right? Yeah. Um, they can feel like they did something right. Or they have a step in the right direction. So it really is a very potent and amazing. From my experience when I've used this with my partner, it's amazing how just starting off with that. True vulnerable.
Janae: I feel. Yeah. Like those are really powerful.
Penney: Sure. I think it's what is it? 96% of the time. It creates the outcome we want at the end versus really that 4% of the time when it's going to crash. So really it increases the chances of getting what we want. And we go into conversation asking for what we want asking for our needs to be met. And this is a way to do that. Uh, the honey or then the wedding night when she wanted to have a conversation about physical intimacy and perhaps some [00:27:00] cuddling. Um, another one of those moments instead of her saying, so you just want me to shut up right up. Uh, I'm feeling confused about what's happening between us. And I, uh, really need to have a conversation with intimacy or I have a need for some cuddling or some physical touch.
Penney: I'm not sure what that looks like. Uh, could we have a conversation around that more? Could we just hold hands? Could we share our inner world. So we create some intimacy between the two of us. Um, uh, it really has helped me in other relationships when that has happened. It's another of those moments and if that's too big for her in the moment, she really could have say, Hey, you know, I really wish we could have a conversation. Around intimacy or I really wish we could have some physical touch right now. Um, I think that could be another one of those moments to open communication instead of the two of them really shut communication down hard.
Penney: And it's very apparent.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah, definitely shuts down hard. [00:28:00] And I really liked it. It calls back to what you were saying. Neither of them are getting their needs met. He's frustrated and confused around where she feels with physical intimacy and a criticized. From her and she feels uncared for. No.
Penney: And they're not
Janae: building trust. Yeah, not building trust at all.
Janae: So neither of them are really making progress forward in the conversations. We've
Penney: been having, so I think it would break this down into our six predictors of divorce. Um, I don't know that we have low commitment. I think just coming into this there's, you know, in eight weeks we can choose yes or no.
Penney: I think that's already there. There's an inherent level. Yes, I think so. Yeah. And then we have those four horsemen they're flying everywhere. I, a little bit of con. I don't know if we have full contempt, but I think he stepped into that in a moment, looking at his facial expressions. I think we were close to that. Definitely emotional flooding. Body language and the ability to have attunment is not there.
Penney: We're not paying attention to each other's body language. You're checking in to see how that is or what that is. Though. failed repair [00:29:00] attempts, we missed a repair attempt, at least on two occasions. And bad memories that build up that's that we've had a lot of these fights that we're not resolving and we're already there because we have the issue over the night before with the intimacy.
Penney: It sounds like there were several disagreements at the airport. And then this one that we're already starting to pile those up. So I would say for this couple, it's not looking good so far. Yeah.
Janae: Not looking great. Yeah. Yeah. So. So definitely some. Just starting it off with, um, does more positive news statements or wished statements from both of them. Him learning how to self-soothe and regulate. Yeah. And communicate when he needs a moment. To re um,
Penney: regulate yes. And some accountability, which gets the opposite of that defensiveness. That's her flying around for both of them. We talked about. And in those moments when he got to sit to your right, I left you at the airport and you are my wife walking beside you is probably a good thing for me to do what I can see why that would feel [00:30:00] hurtful for me to be miles ahead of you. Especially when you have shorter legs. Yeah.
Penney: Yeah.
Janae: And I'm attunement to both of them and I think that's going to be a time thing. But also.
Penney: No pay attention to people's body language. Built out a two minute right to begin with and be able to build that trust. I've got your back. I can see you're struggling. What can I do for you? You know, it looks like you're really flooded right now. Or you feel like physically, you look uncomfortable.
Penney: Do you need a minute before we have this conversation? Um, or vice versa.
Janae: Yeah, it's interesting. I think that a lot of these couples. If they feel like they start off even mildly on the wrong foot. It turns into a battle between them of like, um, I'm not going to be the one to. Step into vulnerability.
Janae: And
Janae: there. They have to really have a good first few [00:31:00] days to start building their trust. And if not, it becomes really hard for them to start into that. And then it becomes like a. Um, I'm not going to try to tune to you. I'm going to try and take care of myself. It becomes a self preservation. Yes,
Penney: absolutely. Which makes sense.
Penney: Everything we know about relationships and about divorce and the research that has been done by Gottmans. That makes sense. Right? I'm not going to step into vulnerability. I'm going to take care of me. Um, may maybe start to make comparisons about other relationships. I don't know if that's happened because I haven't watched these.
Penney: It will be fun to see how it evolves to see what other. Um, patterns that have played out the love lab and with the Gottmans research over the last, you know, 60 years play out in these relationships. It'll be interesting to see. In the future, what that looks like. Anyway, not good so far for these two.
Penney: And hopefully if these things are coming up in your relationship, you can correct and make some of those changes now and use your gentle start-ups or your positive needs statements and your wish statements, and be paying attention to those six predictors.
Janae: Yeah. And I'll be sure to link [00:32:00] episodes we've done in the past where we've broken down some of these concepts more in-depth if you're curious to keep learning more about some of these predictors of divorce and, um, we're excited to continue on with this series.
Janae: We'll break down another argument. Um, or maybe we can even break down where it goes, right with a couple. For the good. Um, so we'll be sure to do that in a future episode soon. So we'll catch you in our next one. All right. Bye bye.
