Ep. 3 Reflecting on Our Marriages and Relationship Changes Over the Years
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Episode 3 Summary: This script is a transcript of the Episode 3 of a podcast titled 'Untangling Relationships'. The hosts, Janae and Penny, initiate a conversation delving into the intricacies of relationships, mainly focusing on their personal experiences. They discuss their own relationships, the transformations they have undergone over the years, the advice they would offer their past selves at the start of their relationships, the importance of rituals of connection, and the debunking of common relationship myths. The conversation also includes discussions about the Gottman method, conflict management, significance of intimacy, and the role of grand gestures and intimacy in relationships.
Episode 3
Janae: [00:00:00] welcome to Untangling Relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a Gen Xer and a millennial, and a mother and daughter. Join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your host, Janae and Penny.
Penney: Good
Janae: morning and welcome. Hello . All right, so we are going to be talking about the leaps and bounds within our own.
relationships with our partners. So kind of a look at from then to now, um, and yeah, diving into all the changes that have happened in our relationships. So really [00:01:00] quickly before we hop into the questions, penny, do you want to give a little. Mini rundown of you and your partner and your relationship, and a little bit of background info
Penney: on like how long we've been together, that kind of background info.
Yeah. Okay, sure. So my partner and I have been together, we just celebrated our 21st wedding anniversary, and we are both, were previously married, so second marriage. And we have a yours, mine, in ours, family with seven kiddos. Nice. Mm-hmm. .
Janae: And, um, my husband and I got married in June of last year, so we haven't hit a year anniversary yet, but we have been dating for, we were dating for five years before then, so, um, [00:02:00] yeah.
And. , his first marriage, my second marriage. We don't have any kids. Uh, we just have our three cats, . Um, so yeah, that's a little bit background about us. Um, okay, so our first question here is how has your relationship with your partner changed from your first year to your most current?
Penney: It's funny, I had a conversation with a client earlier today about, um, people telling her, or asking her, um, saying I hear the first year is the best year of marriage and, uh, how it's that like fun romantic honeymoon period.
And her comment was, that wasn't true for her and definitely not true for. . I actually think the first year of marriage, adjusting to living with another human and compromise and who likes what and [00:03:00] who does what and how all that looks is extremely difficult, and it's a whole new world of adjustment.
Janae: Yeah.
I don't know who told her that, but I've always heard that your first year is one of the hardest .
Penney: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it's really hard. That first year is difficult and then. . I mean, five to seven is difficult. And then really, I think it's the 15th to 16 year mark. You go through another transition where things are, are difficult again.
So marriages are always growing and changing and difficult during different parts of the relationship as it
Janae: does change. Yeah, I guess I always, or I've been noodling around with the question. Does that mean like your first year of living together or is it your first year of marriage? Like, because our culture a little bit, um, those two were synonymous.
Like you don't live together unless you are married. [00:04:00] Um, and I obviously did not make that choice like my partner and I were living. Not alone living together, but with roommates from pretty much the very beginning of our relationship. Um, but then like just the two of us living together for three years before we got married.
So I have been questioning that of like, does that still apply? Like ? My guess
Penney: is it does to some level because statistically, uh, couples that live together and then get. Have a higher rate of divorce than couples that just move in together after getting married. It would be interesting to read more of the facts on that.
I know that was the statistics. I think it was like 75%, so a like one quarter higher, 25% higher. If you, uh, lived together before you got
Janae: married? How recent is that? Because
Penney: So I was just gonna say that was
Janae: the facts that that trend has [00:05:00] changed.
Penney: It actually hasn't. I re-looked up, that came across like so many people live together now before they, that came across my news feed.
The reason why it's sticky now is cuz I read that maybe three weeks ago and was surprised that that was still the trend. That that's still to st uh, statistically, excuse me, holds true that. , uh, you do have a higher chance of divorce if you live together and get married. And it was interesting, I was in Mexico this past week and I had a conversation with, um, somebody that's native from Mexico and we had that conversation and he was just as surprised.
Um, so I think culturally even that it's a surprising statistic that that's how that works and why that would be. I don't know. I haven't done research into the why's or I don't know if anybody has, but it. maybe an interesting topic for future podcasts, but Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I do think the, the one year potentially, based on those statistics, starts at the time of marriage.
Mm-hmm. ,
Janae: I could definitely see that. I mean, we joked a lot [00:06:00] about how, you know, everyone's like, oh, how's married life? And we joke like, not much has changed if anything has really changed. But I do think that there is a mental shift, um, as much. We were already very committed to each other, and as much as nothing logistically on the outside changed, I do think after going through the wedding and the marriage process and, um, I think that there's a mental shift that happens where you're like, okay, uh, if things go sideways or if something bad happens,
The only way out of this is divorce. Like it ups the ante. Even if, um, even if it would've still been horrible, obviously to separate after Ben being together for five years before [00:07:00] that, that would've obviously been still just as devastating. But there's a different level. Mm-hmm. and I don't know. It's an interesting.
I don't know how exactly, obviously I'm not doing a great job, but, uh, exactly how to explain that mental shift. But there was definitely something that happened, I think. I think
Penney: so. A different level of expectation and worry.
Janae: Yeah. And then society, societal expectation on, on how things are supposed to look and progress and, yeah.
Weird. Yeah. Like cultural norms that you're, trying to figure out how you fit into them. Where before they felt less pressure because you are just quote unquote just dating. Mm-hmm. . Um, but yeah, now it's like, oh, I am a wife and he is a husband. Like, yeah. It's, it's just, uh, an interesting way that Yeah, even though we tried to have it be not a big deal, it's.[00:08:00]
Yeah, there's still a, a shift whether it's like a more mental cultural shift or instead of big shifts, but yeah, there definitely was something. Yeah. Um, anyways, neither of us have answered this question. . How has your relationship with your partner changed from your first year to your most current year?
Penney: Our relationship has changed in incredible ways. I think a lot in the understanding of each other and. . I mean, we didn't even date for a full month before we got married, so we didn't know each other very well. It was, um, a whole new exploration the first year, and things have changed in 21 years, obviously from having like small children and adolescents and, and now to an empty nest that the relationship with your partner changes as you change during each stage of, of life in your, in your twenties and then your thirties.
And forties [00:09:00] that you change as a person. And so I would say, um, the relationship has shifted and changed in amazing ways. Also, my level of education and understanding about relationships has changed and that has definitely changed us as a couple and how we communicate with each other and understand each other differently in a lot of, uh, really positive ways.
I, I joke about, um, him learning to cope with things and we. , uh, in, we were on vacation a year ago and I'm a, a wake up schedule, get things going person, and I'm trying to get us out the door at a certain time. And I walk into the bedroom and he's laying on the bed with a meditation plane. And I was like, what in the world are you doing?
And he said, well, you're moving around and scheduling makes me anxious and I'm doing some meditation so I can approach the day calmly instead of anxious on our vacation. that obviously would've never happened 20 [00:10:00] years ago. . And my approach to that was still very much like, oh wow, okay. a lot of reflection about myself and about him, and about how we impact each other in the relationship and understand each other's, uh, needs and find that balance.
So
Janae: yeah, I think that there's an incredible amount of self-discovery and self-reflection when you. in relationship with someone else. Mm-hmm. like, and if you're not , I feel like putting in the work or time to do that self-reflection and discovery, uh, I think it's, it will become a roadblock in your relationship.
Yeah. Because yeah, like. , you don't know some of the habits that you have or some of the energy that you're putting out there until there's someone on the other side of that to reflect it back to you. I think,
Penney: uh, yeah. And I think [00:11:00] even in the time, um, being in my twenties when we, uh, got married, I've not recognizing a lot of the energy.
I've always had this narrative about, um, about what that was like. A lot more on my end of it. Obviously cuz it's my narrative. But I was a very, I was going to school full-time, worked a full-time job and was raising three children. So I had a very scheduled world and a very organized world. Uh, one of the things that really surprised him is in the kids' bathroom there was a basket for each kid and everybody had matching stuff.
Um, like your toothbrush, hair. All of your stuff was in your basket with your matching towel and your matching stuff. And when his kids were introduced into our house, their life was far less regimented and organized. And they would use the stuff that wasn't their basket and their coloring. And I've always thought about how much [00:12:00] chaos that brought into my world and not understanding how somebody else's world wasn't quite as organized.
And I was, we were reflecting, uh, with my partner, we were reflecting. A week ago about what that must have been like for them to come into a place that was so organized and regimented and not understanding why there's organized baskets in the bathroom and why there's an issue if you just use a toothbrush or a hair, not a toothbrush.
Toothbrushes are a thing, , but why can't I use whatever towels available or why can't I use whatever hairbrushes available and why is that such an issue of where it was? And so I think it's definitely not even years. Finally reflecting on what that energy was like and impacting other people.
Janae: Yeah, yeah.
Like being able to reflect back and see things from other
Penney: perspectives a little bit clearer. Yeah, absolutely. Recognizing your own energy and how that has impacted, impacted, that unfolded, uh, that you're going to, I think you do that a lot looking back [00:13:00] over the years, uh, where you may not recognize it then.
Janae: Yeah, definitely. And I think. We could definitely do a whole, if not multiple episodes on like the experience of blending families. Oh, yeah. ,
Penney: we, we definitely could from my perspective and from, uh, your perspective as a child, right? Yeah. And what that was like. Um, so, and I'm, and I'm sure their perspective of what that's like to come into a home mm-hmm.
that was very different from the home that they were used to. So
Janae: yeah, I didn't ever get it from the other side because, it was always, someone coming into our life and our family. Whereas when my dad remarried, they didn't have kids. She didn't already have kids. They didn't have kids together, so it wasn't really like a.
Going there didn't feel like I'm stepping into a new family [00:14:00] or someone else's life. It slowly became that way after they had been together for so long, and then having one of the, one of my siblings lived there permanently, it became a little bit more like that, but I guess towards the beginning it wasn't.
Yeah, it, it's different.
Penney: Yeah. So definitely the relationship changed over time and understanding. , why I do what I do and why he does what he does and how there has to be bend and flex in one person's way isn't the right way. Yeah, definitely. I do think already having Ben in a relationship, I think about the reflection on my first marriage where there was far more of, uh, how do we do this together and more of a blending and in the second relationship of this is how I already do it, and this is how you need to.
So definitely I would say in my own mentality, there was a big shift, a big change in that. Hmm. In the two years, the first year of both of those relationships look very different because of that. Hmm.
Janae: Yeah. I could see that. [00:15:00] I could see that reflected in my own relationships where, yeah, with my first marriage, it was to the point of I will concede everything and just, yeah, trying to be.
compliant as possible or as like flexible as possible. Mm-hmm. and like letting a lot of things go to try and keep status quo and keep the peace and and whatnot. And then, yeah, with my current partner, like it was, you're a lot more dug in. A lot more dug in. Yeah. Well, and we talk about like how that does happen, where you've swung to the extreme on one side and.
sometimes swinging to the extreme on the other side and trying to find that middle ground can be hard. I do think I've definitely gotten better about finding that middle ground of like conceding where we need to, but [00:16:00] also holding my own boundaries and values and thoughts and opinions on how we, how our family looks like and how we spend money and how we, our house functions and things like that.
So I would say, For me, the biggest changes in the relationship from year one to now is probably changes within like our own personal, I wanna say like maturity level, but that's not quite the right wording. It's like when we got together, we were both 20. Uh, and like still doing school and like dorms slash roommates.
College was very much like the center focus of both of our world. And now we own our own house. We have pets together. We both have like, quote unquote [00:17:00] adult jobs. And so that has been a significant change for both of us, and it's been interesting. talking with him about how we have both gone through periods where I will feel like I've just been through a big, like growth spurt, , and he's feeling a little bit behind.
And then we'll switch and he'll go through a big growth or change spurt. And then I'm feeling, um, a little bit behind in just recognizing. , no one needs to be behind no one. Like, that's just how life is going to be. Like, I guess normalizing that it's okay that we are gonna be progressing at different, uh, different paces because just because we're together doesn't mean that we're going to be working through similar challenges or taking on new responsibilities at exactly the same [00:18:00] amount.
Time or pacing. So
Penney: probably good you're not, so if someone can keep the baseline while somebody is growing, yeah, it's true, right? Somebody has to hold the belay line where the other person is, you know, repelling or climbing. So somebody has to be
Janae: the anchor. Yeah, definitely. And we have, we have talked about that, how it's like, I'm glad that things in your life right now are stable because things right now are crazy on my end and things like that.
So, absolutely. Yeah. I'd say that that's the biggest change is. Life changes and stages of where we're at in life have shifted. So our next question here is, what would you go back and tell your past self at the beginning of your relationship? If you could go back and tell. one thing or a couple of things.
Um, what advice would you give to 25 26? 25. 25 year old Penny. Mm-hmm. , .
Penney: Um, [00:19:00] oh, so many things. Yeah. And yet I can't think of just like one major thing. Definitely some things would be perspective about seeing things from different angles and different. That it's okay if things don't run smoothly and that there's gonna be ebb and flow and space for, uh, things to change and go differently.
And that's okay. And that it all works out. . Yeah.
Janae: Yeah. To kind of let that ebb and flow happen and not be so
Penney: stressed about it and afraid of vulnerability. That's still something that I struggle with and conversations that we continue to have vulnerability. in that relationship. Um, it's hard for me, uh, in that personal relationship, and I think just from past wounds and damage and being a second relationship, that that's a harder thing for me.
Mm-hmm. . What about for you? What would be your advice? So are you saying advice to your [00:20:00] like. June self. Yeah. or advice to your five years ago
Janae: Self. Uh, I imagine it as a five years ago self. but I guess I could do a little bit of both. Um, five years ago I would probably try and give myself the, the advice of,
hm. . Yeah. What would I say? I don't know. That's a hard one. Mm-hmm. , like you said, you feel like there's a lot, but then not really a whole lot. Hmm. I think it would be good to go back and tell myself that
relationships are going to be scary no matter what and but it's also worth the. Fear, like it's worth putting yourself out there for them, [00:21:00] and it's okay to have faith that they will work out. Um, I think after going through a, having a quote unquote failed relationship before that, it was very much so, like, I don't want to hope too much or put too much, uh, expectation on this working out just in case.
comes back and bites me or like, you know, you end up with pie in your face kind of a thing. Um, and I do think that that impacted my ability to open up and be hopeful and really put all my eggs in one basket kind of a thing. Um, and I think that he probably felt that resistance from me and I can look back and see where he was being.
Gentle or careful or kind of tiptoeing around those feelings of mine. Um, and so I guess maybe [00:22:00] telling my past self that it's okay to hope for the best and not have to be worrying about making constant contingency plans of what if this fails or half expecting it to fail constantly. yeah, , that's what I would go back and.
Tell myself,
Penney: So I'm wondering what maintenance do you find goes into maintaining and upholding your relationship in order to keep it going?
Janae: I think that there are a lot of things. The biggest things I would say my partner and I practice is having specific. , times and places where we know we always come together.
And so we can get into the, the Gottman's, but the their, um, they coined it as rituals of connection [00:23:00] and we had quite a few rituals already before getting introduced to that. Um, couple's. . And I think that that's been a really strong part of maintaining our relationship. So like he will always, um, half wake me up.
Sometimes I wake up all the way, but when he is going to work, he'll always say goodbye with, um, like a kiss and say goodbye. And I will and love and I love you. And I will either mumble something, incoherent back, or I will say the same thing back and then. when I come home, he's always there to greet me at the door and you know, greet with a hug and that kind of stuff.
And then he usually goes to bed before me because he gets up before me and he will always come and check in. And it's kind of funny. I know what he's gonna say before he says it cuz I'm so used to it. But he comes in and he's like,[00:24:00] I think I'm off to bed . And I was like, okay. And so then, you know, we'll hug and have like a good night kiss and then he'll go in to go to bed and then, um, even if I'm coming in to the bed after he's gone to sleep, he generally wakes up enough that we like, have a little bit of connection when I get into the bed and, you know, we lay down next to each other.
Hold each other to go to sleep. So I would say those rich like daily rituals and then we have like weekly ritual or weekend rituals that we always do as well. But I would say that's one of the biggest things I think has really helped with the maintenance of, of our relationship. yeah. How.
Penney: I would agree about the rituals of connection, learning about the Gottman method and how important those are.
I would say during [00:25:00] really difficult times, those are some of the things that have really sustained our relationship when, um, everything else was falling apart, those rituals were important and they keep you together and not letting those breakdown is important. We also have a morning ritual, a night ritual, a coming together ritual, leaving each other ritual.
and a lot of other rituals around kids and family and time together. And definitely a weekend. We've always done a, a breakfast and, and, uh, some time together on either Saturday or Sunday. In fact, we've been slacking on that a little bit. And this morning, um, my partner woke me up by saying, okay, so which, which day, Saturday or Sunday are you committing to it being our day and our morning together?
Because we haven't done as well on that in, I wanna get back to it. So I would like a commitment from you on that. I think those are, those are very important. Also, the appreciations are important in a relationship. Letting your partner know every day that you're fond of them, you [00:26:00] admire them and that you appreciate them not for the things that they do, for the people that they are.
Those are really important in our relationship, especially for me. Uh, those words of knowing that I'm okay as a person and that I'm valued by my partner are really essential for me. So that's an important one. The other one Gottman's talk about is, Emotional bank account that there are times when there will be conflicts and difficulties and, and there will be a withdraw from the emotional bank account.
In the way that we build that up is through those, um, what they call bids for connection. When our partner is reaching out, trying to create an emotional connection with us, and we let 'em know, I see you, I care about you, and you're there. That. , but building that up so that during times of difficulty and times of conflict that you have a store in the, the bank account to be able to withdraw from is really important.
So that's something that I think bids for connections, appreciations and turning towards all build [00:27:00] into, and that it can sustain you in times when it's difficult.
Janae: Yeah, I imagine that when you aren't doing those, , giving and receiving bids for connection and turning towards when you aren't in a good habit or good place with those, it really does feel like you are two strangers living in, um, different kind of stress, fears within your house or like passing ships where you're both existing but not really interacting and doing that for.
you know, any extended period of time, it really does make you kind of question like, what's the point of being in this relationship? Like, why, you know, who is this person to me? And, I think we forget how painful that can be of, you know, this is supposed to be your person. , you know, when it feels like you're very distant from each other, that can be very [00:28:00] painful.
Not that they have to be, everything for you, but Yeah.
Penney: Yeah. I think about when you watch, um, videos of babies around, um, attachment, secure attachment, insecure attachments, and, um, being a psychology major, have the, the opportunity to watch several of those videos and you watch the. , reach out for attention, make a smile, make a coup, make a face.
And when they prompt the parent to ignore and turn away, and you watch that baby go into distress, that doesn't change for us. Just because we age our, our brains and our bodies and our nervous system, and every part of us is built for connection. And when we make a bid, a smile, a question, a touch, anything to get attention from our partner.
I think about times when I will have a conversation or ask a question or wink or do something towards my partner, and then you realize afterwards they have their earbuds in, right? You can't see that. You [00:29:00] don't know that, and so you make the bid and there's radio silence that I feel that deep in my soul of I'm not important enough to be acknowledged.
I'm not important enough to be seen, and it feels like such a painful disconnect. , um, that, yeah, I, I feel just like that baby of like, why am I not seen and heard and maintaining those is so important that, that really create such damage within our, the neuron really at a cellular level in our body that we really do need that.
Janae: So, , remind me what the numbers of that are to be positive in your bank account. Is it, however, how many bids for connection need to be answered?
Penney: I believe it's five to one, but I could be off on that. That could be a different statistic, but I think it's five to one. I know they recommend, I might be mixing up with a different statistic, but I think it's five to one.
I'll double check on that, and if I'm wrong, I [00:30:00] can correct it in another.
Janae: So for every five bids, at least one needs to be answered to stay positive. No. Oh,
Penney: I'm thinking if you miss a bid or you have a fail, it takes five to make up for that. Oh. That Like if you criticize someone, it takes like five compliments to make that better, so.
Oh, okay. Gotcha. So the withdraws are much bigger than the deposits. Hmm.
Janae: Yeah. Yeah. So missing one puts you five in the.
Penney: Yes, I believe so. But I can double check on the statistics of that and, and correct it if needs be.
Janae: Yeah, . No worries. one thing we can talk about here as well is the, um, relationship card decks that the Gottman's have, they have online where it's just an app that you can get.
So if you are interested in building more, rituals of connection, if you're interested in building more, what they call your love maps of being able to [00:31:00] know your partner on a deeper level, um, you can download both of you, download the app, and then pick one of the card decks to, to flip through and answer questions with each other and take you.
a half an hour to an hour, every few days or maybe once a week. Whatever works best for you, and start rebuilding that connection. If you feel like you've lost it or if you feel like you're in a good place, it's still good to to use and keep those connections going.
Penney: one of the card decks is a connection card deck where you are choosing very purposeful ways to connect with your partner and.
accomplish one connection. You can create another and, and keep that being a part of your relationship. They're very
Janae: helpful. Yeah. I think that, I feel this after, not even that many years. Um, but it can be hard to like, get out of your comfort zone, get out of routine, or get unstuck from maybe where you're at.
And those card decks [00:32:00] give you the ideas, like you don't have to come up. The questions, you don't have to come up with the, um, like connection, uh, event ideas. Like they're already there. You just need to utilize them as a tool. Um, so yeah, very
Penney: helpful. Definitely for my partner and I as we chose the connection, we, um, chose them last year.
We actually need to re choose them cause I think we've accomplished the ones that we set out to. , it really came up around like, I would like to have this connection and we are having those connections, but it really gave us a different definition of I wanna have this connection in this way. Hmm. And this is how we're going to do that, especially in relationships where one partner does all of the planning and all of the work towards that.
It can shift that in a different direction to create different dynamics, which was, uh, interesting and fun in our relationship this past year as we did that. Yeah.
Janae: What's an example that you can give if you want? of one of the connections that maybe [00:33:00] was helpful or flipped things? Well,
Penney: my, I plan the vacations in our family and my husband really, there was a specific spot in Idaho, in up to Idaho City that he wanted to take as a trip, and I said, okay, I'm willing to do that trip, however, I'm not willing to plan it.
So you need to do all of the planning and arranging around that. . It definitely was an adventure as he found the spot. And then I asked questions like, so what are we going to eat? Mm-hmm. and, and things that he didn't think about planning that need to be planned for. And when you don't have service, have you made arrangements for like, what is the door code?
And. , uh, what are the directions and, and such. So things that really in our relationship have become like, here's your role, here's your role. Mm-hmm. , it really shook it up and made for a very different vacation for I think appreciations and for him to increase appreciation for me to appreciate, [00:34:00] appreciate the effort and of.
Being willing to do the work, to create time for us to spend together and to have it be the way that he wanted it. So it was his vacation instead of my vacation he participated in. It was very different. Yeah,
Janae: that's a good point. I wouldn't have thought to put it that way, but yeah, it's, it's him. If he's the main one, one planning it, then yeah, it's, he is putting things on the schedule that he really wants to do.
And obviously you're allowed to give input, but. . If it was something, if it was a place that he really wanted to go, then it makes sense that, you know, he would be kind of the leading person in that of deciding, here's what I really want to do. And it sounds like it made a good groundwork for both of you maybe getting new perspectives, which can maybe break habits and.
to make the vacation seem even more different because you [00:35:00] guys, ended up doing quite a few different things than if you would've planned it.
Penney: Absolutely. And the other part of that was I go into vacations, not stressed, but scheduled. Mm-hmm. . And in that role of, um, what I coined master commander, right?
Here's the schedule, here's what we're gonna do, here's the, I lay it out and keep everybody on task. , I went into that vacation in a very different place of, okay, well I'm not in charge so I don't have to be. And it created different dynamics between the two of us as far as just me being calm and relaxed and, and him saying, well, now what?
In me saying, I don't know, . Um, so it, it really, it really flipped the whole script in our relationship. and kicked us out of those roles that we normally take in a relationship and, and it has had an impact on other vacations that we have had together as I realized the importance of not going into it in that way and him [00:36:00] realizing the importance of him stepping up in that way so that things can balance more.
Janae: Hmm, yeah. I'd love to do a whole episode on roles, but then also on like how role reversal can be freeing and helpful and kind of break out of. Patterns. Yeah. Um, so, awesome. Well, thanks for sharing, uh, that connection. Mm-hmm. , um, anything else that you wanna talk about for maintenance? Um, or do you want, are you ready to move on?
Penney: Maybe the stress reducing conversations would be important. That's another Gottman term where each partner takes 10 minutes at the end of the day to vent about their day and about things that have happened and. Us against them conversation. And that's just a, a quick rundown of what that is. Um, but they're important.
They provide you that ritual of end of the day connection. We're on each other's team. We're on each other's side. my partner and I joke [00:37:00] about how the times when we have been really, really connected are times when we have engaged in a battle against somebody outside of our house or outside force that we really come together.
We are a strong. Uh, battle filled together that, um, we wanna talk about a brick wall. We do really, really well at that. It goes really badly when we turn it against each other cuz we are excellent battle filled commanders, , um, and, and so having that moment at the end of every day where we get to enact that in a different way, even that's just around the weather or drivers or bosses or coworkers.
Just the world and come together about Yeah. Those jerks. Mm-hmm. , uh, it really creates that connectedness between the two of us. And not a time for advice giving, but just for a time for being on each other's team. And it's really empowering.
Janae: I also really like with stress reducing conversations that it is [00:38:00] specifically laid out where there's a time cap for each of you to fill and.
you don't fall into one partner de-stressing and talking and then the other partner never getting a turn or taking a turn. Like some people feel uncomfortable stepping into that role, or sometimes it can feel like there's not enough time or you don't wanna burden your partner with your problems and then you're not sharing.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah, the
Penney: recommendation is 10 minutes and 10 minutes. But for couples that are just starting this, if that's difficult, you can do five and. . Um, I have seen couples that start with it and then soon it does become unbalanced because the one part will say, well, don't, I don't really have anything to say, and my recommendation is keep the time equal.
It needs to be, it needs to fill that way. So whether that needs to be five and five or 10 and 10, there needs to be some equality. And if you really sit down and think about your day, you don't have to share all the bad things that have happened during. , just share your day and [00:39:00] even positives, and that's okay too.
There's one couple I've talked with that like to end it with a positive, it feels better for them after the event to say, but here's some gratitudes or some, some positives around the day. And I think that's an okay place to end
Janae: to. Yeah, I had to kind of implement that with me and my partner when he's in times.
there's specific times throughout the year that are really, really stressful for him at work. And it can definitely feel like, every single thing that happened throughout his day was bad and having to hear that, can be hard for both of us. And so, I just started asking him after that allotted time of.
Venting, to say, what, what was one thing about your day that you, that was good, or I would ask, what's something that you're looking forward to for tomorrow? Because I noticed that helped his mental health a little bit, of [00:40:00] reminding him that there are small things that are good and also what's something that you can look forward to, to for tomorrow so it doesn't feel like you.
going to bed and waking up to go back to work and be unhappy again. Um,
Penney: sure. A reprieve from the battle, basically. Yeah. Right.
Janae: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, and yeah, one key part, if you're going to practice this with your partner, um, is to, penny mentioned it, but don't give advice. You're not there to say, oh, well what if you did this?
Or, oh, why did you do that? That way? Like, maybe you should have done this. , it's you two against the world. And also you aren't going to give advice. You're just listening as the listener role. Um, at the end you can ask, do you want help brainstorming solutions for this, or do you just wanna leave it? And then make sure and be respectful of whatever they say, [00:41:00] whatever choice they make.
Penney: I think just thinking about timing on that, um, I related it to a battlefield. I apologize if that, um, brings up trauma for anyone, but definitely for my partner and I, the view of the battle has just ended. We're back together at the end of it. , I would never get, tell him all the reasons why he lost the battle Right after the battle.
Right? Yeah. Or if you look at it as a family, we grew up talking about it as a softball game. We're we're playing a, a softball game. When the player comes back in who has just struck out or, or missed a bass or lost a catch, you don't, they don't come to the end and you say, well, here's all the things you did wrong.
You say, way to stick in there. Good job. And then there's a time for that conversation later, and that conversation is not at the end. , the end of the conversation is about, man, that was a really hard hit, or that was a difficult miss, that the wind just caught that just right, or whatever that is. And it's a time for support, not a time for critiquing and changing.
It's just a time for [00:42:00] support. And I think looking at life, that's very common. After somebody is in an accident, you don't tell 'em all the reasons why they got in the accident. You make sure they're okay and you check in with them and you support 'em. You can have the other conversation later. It's just not that time.
Janae: I love that analogy. , especially for those, and I will, uh, a hundred percent claim this. Um, as for those that are in that habit of, I just wanna fix it and let me, um, help brainstorm all the things that we could do to make it better. Or, you know what, if you did this because, and it's coming from a place of trying to protect or trying to.
um, helps so that they don't go through that again. But yeah, putting it in that analogy really helps of checking in and, and reminding yourself that that's not the place for it. And yeah, you would never criticize someone like as you [00:43:00] said, with the, with the team. You know, if a player strikes out, hits the.
does do that. Like or your teammates, if you come in and they're like, wow, you suck. Like that was really bad. Here's all the things you did wrong. Like, you're not gonna be playing the game good for the rest of the time. Like that really, um, hurts you personally, but also hurts your team.
Penney: Mm-hmm. . Absolutely.
There's a time for that. It's just not that time.
Janae: All right, we're gonna run through really quick. A few. Relationship myths. So this is our, it takes two to tango and in this case, the two that are tangoing is maybe us in our relationships and society. the myths and lies that we get, lies that we're told about being in a relationship.
And we're just gonna read through them, uh, semi quickly. We have five myths. And then if we wanna go into depth in any of them here, we can, or we can leave it for another episode to go into depth. . [00:44:00] All right. The myth number one is love is shown through grand gestures and expensive gifts. ,
Penney: this is probably my least favorite myth, um, and I think I've talked about this in previous podcasts.
My love language is not gifts. In fact, I hate them. I hate surprises, and I hate gifts. I have a glass face. I don't do well at performance. and often my face, even if I'm not thinking something critical, it seems to come across that way to people. And then the humans in my life are consistently let down and disappointed because I am not excited for grand gestures when I'm just trying to figure out how to, uh, how to manage them or respond to them.
I don't do well with this. So, um, I would agree. This has definitely come up in my relationship that this. Was planted at some point. And it's not my, it's not my belief and I don't do [00:45:00] well with it. So this is going to be something that is a letdown in every relationship that people have with me if they're expecting this to work.
Janae: I also really hate this idea because it's shown throughout like romantic comedies and other. Relationship media, things where it's, um, where historically the guy's been kind of a jerk the whole time or doing things and letting the other person down, and then there's one big grand gesture at the end and then it fixes everything.
And it's like, that's not real life. We shouldn't be teaching, anyone, that if that you can. Rude to your partner over and over and over again, and give them a gift or give them a grand gesture and have it fix everything. Mm-hmm. , that's not true. That's not real. It's not helpful. And then we shouldn't be teaching anyone on the other side of the relationship that you, you [00:46:00] can just get beat up over and over and over again from someone hurting you.
Um, and then you should just let it all go if. do something grand or they give you something expensive or something like that. Like you should just let it go and it fixes everything. Like it's not healthy to um, yeah, not healthy me messaging that we've received around that.
Penney: Absolutely. If you look at the cycle of violence and the cycle of abuse that plays into that, that after the abuse, there's a grand gesture to fix it and then a honeymoon before it starts again.
And we definitely have built that into our. and it definitely comes up in relat. Um, and messages and myths that we need to change. I was actually reflecting today is Valentine's Day. Mm-hmm. , um, which may not be when you're listening to this, but as we're recording it, that's what the day is. And yesterday I had made a comment to my partner about, Hey, tomorrow's Valentine's Day.
And he replied with, oh, do we do things for Valentine's Day? Obviously not a [00:47:00] ritual. We have . And I said, not really. And he said, okay. So we went about our day. I'm thinking Whoof, we're off the hook for Valentine's Day till my 20 year old last night. Asked what I was doing for her for Valentine's Day . Um, because I have made, oh, um, just feeling, knowing that kids get like Valentine's grams and stuff at school.
And so I have made it a habit of like hiding things in her car or having something delivered. Trying to give her that like, you're important and you're, you're special to someone kind of feeling. Mm-hmm. . And so she asked about it and we had a, I was like, Wasn't planning on
Janae: it. , you were like, oh shit, I didn't think about this one.
Penney: Exactly, exactly. So then this morning my partner says, well, it looks like I'm going shopping for Valentine's Day . So I went, oh geez, .
Janae: And so you would almost hope that you could say, um, you know, she likes the gifts. If you have, uh, the need, you buy it for her gifts, give it to her. Yes. Um, yes. That would be wonderful.
He [00:48:00] struggles with that of. of guilt around not getting you things. Yes. Makes him feel like a bad partner. Um, but yeah, if he,
Penney: but it would make my day if he got it for her, because then I don't have to shop for her. Yes. And so it really is a gift for you. I love to see that relationship grow between father and daughter.
So yes, that would be amazingly empowering for me. Um, however, I will be taking some time today to shop for both of them in order to show appreciation, not as a grand gesture, but just as a, I appreciate both of you and, um, I'm sending that love and care and your response. Someone special. Yeah. But anyway, um, it's just funny how those myths get messed with and changed and how they're different to each person.
So conversations and expectations need to be discussed open. .
Janae: Yeah. I know that there are definitely some people that grand gestures and big gifts are very important to them. Mm-hmm. . So when you're entering into a relationship, or even if you've been in it for a long time, having that conversation now of [00:49:00] how do you feel about this?
Like what are your expectations, um, can be really important. Yeah. All right. Myth number two. Sex is the most important thing in a relationship I think we can leave it at. Yeah, that's a big myth. , we definitely have plans on talking about, um, affection and sexual currency in relationships. Um, unless there's something specific you wanna say about that myth.
I think
Penney: maybe a rewording of intimacy is important in a relationship. Not sex is the most important thing, but the intimacy is
Janae: important. Intimacy is, I.
And I think that misnomer or switch of, definition around being intimate with your partner versus having sex very different and sex can look different than what you would coin as you know, traditional, cisgender. sex, so Absolutely. All right. Myth number [00:50:00] three. Having arguments is a bad sign. , no.
You have a lot to say about this .
Penney: I actually do have a lot to say about this just because research does not bear that out. Yeah. That conflict in a relationship is important and relationships with there is not conflict, have a higher rate of divorce than those that do conflict managed correctly. I mean, that's important, but really, I guess I've just had moments or I have worked with.
That their relationship is just dead. And that runs my soul. I don't know how else to say it other than that, I am a passionate person and my partner is a passionate person. And something we have always said is, well, whatever we do, we do it passionately. So if that means we love, we love passionately, we fight passionately and we, you know, against each other or others, but there's a lot of passion in my relationship and I value that so strongly.
And I've had moments when that has waned in our relationship and it is just soul rendering to me to have. Really, it's, it is soul brandy because you, you're that sole connection [00:51:00] from that intimacy. And when that other half is just ripped away and feels dead and, and missing it, it, it kills something inside of you.
So I do have a lot to say about that and the research backs that up. That conflict is healthy, conflict done in an appropriate way is healthy and needs to happen. Mm-hmm. and that. You, you don't wanna have that missing cuz then it's death,
Janae: it's dead. Well, I, I've been in a relationship where this was definitely an issue and, I just remember writing, journaling, thinking, saying it to, to him even like, why don't you give a shit?
Like, why don't you care? Like, you don't even care enough to, to talk about it, to discuss problems to. Engage at all. and engaging in conflict when there is conflict to be had is helpful. Like ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Um, and [00:52:00] pretending like everything is fine isn't going to make things go away.
So, yeah, I like that you said or put the parameters around it. Having conflict in your relationship is normal. We shouldn't demonize that. , you don't have to think that if you have conflict in your relationship that it isn't good or that it's bad Relationship. Having conflict is okay. We just need to be taught better skills on how to have conflict without getting in the weeds of sniping at each other and bringing up criticism and getting like nasty with each other.
Um, so getting kind of rules of engagement. Mm-hmm. when it comes into conflict. learning how to make repairs. Yeah. And making sure that you're making your repairs after conflict has happened. Um, so yeah, having some guidelines around that.
Penney: Agreed
Janae: with every one of those. Yeah. All right. Myth number four. Um, you need to be having sex [00:53:00] regularly to be a happy couple.
So another sex-based one, .
Penney: Yeah. Which I think we spoke to that. Yeah. And the first one again, intimacy. Yeah. And a ritual of connection around intimacy is important. However, you don't have to be having sex regularly. Yeah. That looks different to different people. Yeah. And
Janae: regularly means something different.
So many different things to different people. Yep. Um, okay. And then our last myth, you need to spend as much time together as possible.
Penney: This is another big one. You know, that's a trigger for me. Yeah. Uh, because people truly buy into this and believe this, that if. Want to go out with myself or by myself or with friends, or spend time away from my partner that somehow I am a bad partner or I don't care about my partner, and I hear this all the time, and I speak against it all the time.
Do we need time with her partner? Yes, but we don't stop being our own people because we are in a relationship. , you can be [00:54:00] hundreds of miles away from your partner and still feel connection if there are rituals around connection and you need time to feed yourself mm-hmm. and to be yourself and be your own person.
And those are important. If you want to spend all the time with your partner and that works for you, great. But it's it, you don't have to. Mm-hmm. , my partner and I do spend time apart and vacation apart, or do things apart or spend weekends apart. . That's okay. It's not something that neither one of us are unhappy about.
It gives us time to do our own thing and be our own people, and that's all right. Yeah.
Janae: I think also it puts an incredible amount of pressure on your other person when you feel the need to rise to that social expectation of we have to be together. We have to do everything together. You have to be my Absolut.
best friends, and we have to have all the same hobbies. And that's put so much pressure on both of you, but especially on your other, other partner, [00:55:00] other person in the relationship of then they feel like, oh crap, like I have to be everything for you. Like I have to be, I have to take care of all of your emotional needs, all of your physical needs, all of your social needs.
Like that's way too much to put on one person. We are heard. Creatures We developed from communities of, you know, 50 to a hundred people in our villages. And each of those people did specific things for us to nurture us and to help us grow and learn and fulfilled different needs. And we've been cut back and cut back so much to this nuclear family and down to just one person is supposed to do everything for you.
It's incredib. , um, stressful for that person to feel all of that pressure and, and oftentimes they can't, they can't be everything for you. Yeah, I
would
Penney: say impossible in that you can't be everything for [00:56:00] someone, and if you are everything for someone in that process, you lose yourself. Yeah. Because you can't be.
everything for each other and still maintain, um, that self-identity and that self as a person that they're doing there. There needs to be other people and other support, and there needs to be a community that's built around you as a person and as a couple. Yeah,
Janae: and I feel like that it's just, it's a recipe for building resentment against each other, I think, and a
Penney: recipe for disaster if something happens to your partner.
Um, your partner is unable to meet your needs. Um, when we go through changes in time that when our partner isn't there all the time, or there's a different work assignment or life changes and there's a death of a partner or something, if you have been everything to that person and there, you're all, you're really alone.
And we are having to, to find ways to rebuild ourself instead of being able to maintain that balance to be able to care for ourselves. [00:57:00] Mm.
Janae: Yeah. All right. You ready to spin the wheel? Sure. Okay. We've got an odd and an even question as usual, um, spin away. Okay.
Penney: I have an odd number five this time.
Janae: All right. How have you learned to notice and respond to your partner's nervous.
Penney: My partner has a lot of tells around his nervous system, uh, rubbing his fingers together, um, a lot of body language when I can tell he's going down the ladder and feeling more anxious.
And my biggest response to that is placing a hand on his knee or his arm. Um, if I'm asking a lot of questions or if we're in a situation where he's feeling overstimulated, find ways for me to back out of that and give him space. come out of feeling overstimulated. Those are probably the biggest ones that I do around that.
Janae: Nice. Yeah. We should definitely [00:58:00] do a more in depth episode on How understanding your own, nervous system and how to have a plan with your partner. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Talk about that more. All right. My turn here.
10. Oh, all right. We're balanced today, so even for me. All right. our even question is what are some co-regulating behaviors, you and your partner practice? I think the biggest co-regulating things we do with one another is around. physical touch and like pressure where if I notice that he's feeling anxious or overwhelmed, we have a weighted blanket that I will ask him if he wants me to go get and lay on him.
or there've been several times where I will be feeling very anxious and I will ask him to like, bear hug me. just like lay [00:59:00] on top of me and put all of his weight and pressure on over my body, to help relieve some of that anxiety. And that, helps. I also, I mean, he doesn't actively participate in this, but when I'm having a hard time going to sleep, he doesn't generally ever have a hard time falling.
So he's generally asleep already, and so I will, lay next to him and try and match my breathing to his and try and listen to his heartbeat to allow myself to come to a place of calm so that I can fall asleep easier. So those are some co-regulating behaviors that we have together. all right. There you go.
Our first couples centered episode. We definitely have more plans for going more into depth into [01:00:00] some of these topics. and yeah, excited for more episodes about partnerships and relationships. Absolutely. All right. We'll catch you in our next one. Bye. Bye.
