EP. 4 How does shame show up in your relationships?
This episode covers how shame might be popping up in the relationships you have in your life. Listeners will learn how to recognize the signs of shame and criticism in how they communicate with their significant others, their kids, or themselves.
Continue learning about the antidotes to criticism and defensiveness in this week's mini-episode at www.patreon.com/untanglingrelationships
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For more information about the Four Horsemen and Dr.s John & Julie Gottman, you can go here https://www.hilltopwellness.net/blog/why-the-gottman-method
Episode 4 Shame in Relationships Transcript
[00:00:00] Welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a gen X-er and a millennial. And a mother and daughter join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and penny. Hello? Hello. Welcome to our episode four. What are we going to be talking about?
Shame. In relationships.
A big topic. And so just to give you a little bit of a. Um, map of where we're going today. We're going to define the difference between chamber versus guilt. We're going to be talking about. Too specific. Um,
Shame triggering behaviors that come up in relationships with our significant others. We'll touch on some shame in parents, child relationships. Um, and talk a little bit about Shane. And its impact on the [00:01:00] body. Um, so that's kind of the plan and we're happy to have you along. And without further ado, let's get into it. Penny, do you want to start us off with our definition of shame versus guilt? Absolutely. So shame is the.
The definition of shame is that I am broken. I am wrong. I am not enough. So it's very much directed in word at ourself. I have not. Well, not being enough, right? Not measuring up. And guilt motivates us to make change and more focused on our actions. I did this the wrong way. I can do this differently. So guilt motivates change.
Shame is about how we're broken and wrong. And stuck. So. Awesome. Um, and so one of the ways to know that you're maybe using shaming language, Towards someone else or towards [00:02:00] yourself, um, using should. Uh, like you should do this or you should be this way. Or, um, And as you talked about in our mini episode last week, um, using Y yeah. Of why are you not this way? Or why am I this way? Or why haven't you changed or things like that?
So just some helpful. Key words to pick up on and notice if you're in conversation with yourself or when you're in conversation with someone else. If you notice that you are pulling towards using those words, Uh, that could be accused that you're using shaming language. Yeah, it's amazing. The difference in the statement between I should.
Have we can do common one. It should have not eaten the piece of cake. Versus I could have chosen not to eat the piece of cake. Right. Cause one just shows that [00:03:00] how somehow I'm broken and the other one, I have the right to make choices. Around what I do. And instead of using, um, why do you do this? Why do you do that?
To start to explain that, help me understand what is behind this, or what is the reason and stepping into curiosity instead of shame, it creates an entirely different dynamic. Yeah, I love that of cause curiosity leaves it open for discussion where the other person can explain maybe their side of things or.
If you're getting curious with yourself, um, It leaves the door open to maybe more understanding. And also, I think it's okay sometimes too. Not need to know why. Because sometimes you don't and sometimes we can really beat ourselves up of like, I need to know. I need to know why. Or beating your partner up with, I want to know why, like, tell me your exact motivations [00:04:00] of why this happened. And sometimes that's really difficult or completely unhelpful.
Absolutely. And changing the conversation to. Uh, what led to this decision or what. Was happening in your, in your thoughts so that I understand better what leads to understanding why leads to blame and shame.
So getting a little bit into the effects that shame has on our bodies. And on our nervous system, which I guess is a part of the body, but maybe a little bit of a different, um, level, um, What comes up for me when we're talking about. Changing these phrases is if you're coming at someone or coming at yourself with this.
Deep shaming language. It's going to most likely push whoever you're talking to. Into a state of fight or flight or [00:05:00] freeze and shut down. And then that's going to completely shut you off from being able to continue the conversation productively. It's going to shut you off from being able to be open and curious.
And stay open in the conversation. And it shuts you off from problem solving and finding solutions. Um, so if your end goal is to. Openly talk about what's going on. Your angle is to find solutions again with yourself, or like we're talking about in this episode. Is for our relationships. Um, so when you're talking to someone else, if that's your goal,
Then. It's important to know using Chamberlain language. Gets you extremely far away from your goal. It's not a productive. Absolutely. And I'm not sure why we would want to spend time. Uh, On not accomplishing our goals. Right. Instead of seeking to understand and move forward instead of just [00:06:00] beating our head against a wall.
I think there's a lot of misnomers around. And, you know, forgive me for any ages on that might show up here, but I do feel like there's a generational difference of past generations saying, well, I turned out fine, or this worked for me. Uh, why do I need to soften up? And it's like, if you want better results, then you need to change how you're talking to people.
It's not a fact of, if it's hard or soft it's do you want it to be productive or not? And so I think it's helpful maybe when talking to people, if you have someone in your life that maybe uses that as a defense, um, maybe bringing it up in this way of. Yes, we're trying to not hurt people's feelings, but also it's good for you to like, it helps you get the outcome that you want. Yeah. I think a good analogy of this is how many people do you know that still have [00:07:00] dial up internet?
Um, it was slow. It was terribly inefficient. It was noisy. Uh, and you could easily get cut off of a phone call came in. I very much remember dial-up internet and not many people have that anymore. If anyone has that anymore, I don't even know if it's offered. Um, however, I am open to being wrong. If there is somebody that does.
And that's a form of communication when we are online and communicating. So if we can update the way we communicate through electronic means, perhaps it's also okay to update the way we communicate verbally with each other. And we don't need to be set back in time. And instead of moving forward, as we get more research and we get more knowledge, just like we have with the internet and just, and just as we have with that connection.
We know a lot more about how to communicate now, how that impacts the nervous system, how that impacts the brain. And we have access to that knowledge. So why would we not use it just as we choose to use a different form of [00:08:00] electronic communication? Definitely. Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it for sure.
Okay. So, um,
One way. One word that. Comes up a lot when we're talking about shame in relationships is a criticism. And criticism is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Um, which was a term. Is a term that, uh, John and Julie Gottman doctors, John and Julie Gottman coined and use from their research and they use in their.
Couples work. So we're going to talk a little bit about criticism. Which is one of those four horsemen as well as defensiveness, which is one of those four horsemen. So. One thing to talk about could be, or a two question maybe is how criticism [00:09:00] from other people, as well as from ourselves leads to.
Shame.
Not only in your body, but also leads to. More negative core beliefs of yourself. Which we talked about core beliefs, if you haven't listened to already in our mini episode. Um, so if you're a Patriot and go check that out, if you're not a patron. Feel free to go join. Our patron to get more. Uh, information about those negative core beliefs. Um, but.
When we're using criticism and shame. It leads to. More negative core beliefs that we're holding on. Or it can feed into the core beliefs that we already have about ourselves and make them stronger, which is really painful. And we don't want to do that to ourselves. We don't want to do that to other people.
So those core beliefs, just as an example, is like, I'm not enough. I am broken. Um, [00:10:00] And. Yeah, we don't want to continue that narrative. You know, it's interesting because the definition of criticism, um, fits right into that definition of shame with the definition of criticism, being to complain, um, to state a complaint about someone as like a defect in their personality or them as a person that somehow they're broken.
Or somehow that they're wrong. And that they do all these bad things because they are a bad person. So very much criticism and shame are synonymous in. Um, the shame being the feeling that is created from the action of criticizing someone in who they are as a person. So very much synonymous with that.
Yeah. And. You know, we've talked about how having a general positive. Look on the people that you're in relationships with helps to keep the [00:11:00] relationship. Cohesive and in a positive place. And so if you're. Using criticism a lot. That's telling not only yourself, but the person that you're criticizing that you don't think that.
You don't think the best of them, you think that they have bad intentions? You think they're purposefully trying to hurt you or be quote unquote, a bad person. Um, and so if that's the narrative that you're telling yourself, Constantly, you can definitely see why. The. Y criticism is attached to that, those four horsemen of the apocalypse. So a little bit more background.
The four horsemen. Penny. You'd probably be able to give a better definition of this, but the four horsemen are things to watch out for that pop up in relationships. That signal that the relationship is. Going to end soon. Yeah, it's it's on its way out. So if things don't change. It will end up. Ending the relationship [00:12:00] and, um, contempt, which is one of the four horsemen being one that is a high signal, that the relationship is soon to end, which we're not going to talk about today, but.
Yeah. The four horsemen of being contempt, criticism, defensiveness, and stonewalling. Yeah. So it's important to notice these. Behaviors. Uh, because they're assigned that if you and your partner and doing this constantly, or there's a high amount of criticism and defensiveness. Or stonewalling or contempt in your relationship?
Your relationship is on its way out. And no one wants their relationship to end. And that can be not just, um, like interpersonal like relationships with a significant other, but any interpersonal relationship with coworkers, with friends, which with. Family, anytime we're stepping in a lot into criticism.
Um, that's a concern and I believe we're going to do a mini episode that talks more about the antidotes, [00:13:00] but I would just recommend as a quick little. Uh, piece of that to remember if we're curious, instead of criticizing, we can stay. Hey, I'm unhappy about this as a, as a complaint, not as a criticism.
Um, can we talk about, uh, what's behind it first asking ourself. Uh, what is bringing up my need to criticize someone else? And then what do I need? From this person or from this interaction or from this relationship. And that opens a whole different door instead of attacking or criticizing someone. We really start to ask ourselves, what is it that I need? What is it that I want? And what is it that.
That, the feeling that is happening inside me, that's creating this so that I can approach it in a way that I get my needs met instead of criticizing someone, creating shame and creating distance in the relationship. Yeah. Criticism is definitely. Uh, put everything on the other person, whereas taking maybe the [00:14:00] opposite approach of.
Owning your own feelings around what's going on, owning your own needs and owning your ability to express those needs to get those needs met in a more positive way. Um, One thing that we could also talk about is we talked about the two words of should and why being kind of trigger words for shame, where you is a trigger word for criticism.
So if you're wondering, am I stepping into criticism right now? Well, check your statement. If it was. You never do this. You always are ignoring me. You didn't take out the trash. You did this. You know, It's all of that kind of shaming you language. I think, especially if you're part with, why did you yeah. Right. Because we hear that a lot or you should have.
So that's a double compounded. So you have to, you have criticism. The lion should have shame. Yes. They go together. [00:15:00] And how often do we put those statements together and really pay attention to that? Yeah, but immediately creates one of the other horsemen, which is that defensiveness that if someone comes at you, why did you, or you should have.
We immediately go into a place of defensiveness, right? Somebody has just attacked me. Now I have to defend myself and put up the wall, which often comes out as. Uh, well, how come you or. Um, well, why do you always do this? And then it definitely puts us into this attack. Defend battle. Or the inability to really accept accountability for our part of things. Cause we instantly go into defensiveness instead of being able to step back and curiosity.
Yeah. And so. Defensiveness is.
Almost like you're armoring up. Um, And for good reason. I mean, I think that there's definitely some empathy. If you find yourself constantly [00:16:00] being defensive. Um, because that means that you're probably constantly on the receiving end of a lot of criticism. But also. Defensiveness can also come up when.
You're not being criticized, but defensiveness can come up when you instead don't want to take accountability, like you had mentioned. I think don't take accountability and often that's because we're sitting in a place of shame already around a topic or an issue around ourself. And already feel not enough or not. Good enough.
Uh, we approach the world in a very defensive place because the world is a very scary place. That maybe someone is going to remind you or tell you or bring up or you're going to see. The somehow you really don't belong in the world are not good enough to be in the world. There's a lot of fear around that, which.
He keeps us in a place of defensiveness and shut off from the world behind a wall. A lot of people describe it as a wall. Um, I love that. That [00:17:00] reconnection with our shame topic. Of. Um, And also rec remembering back to, if you're in a place of shame, you're probably in a place of shutdown or freeze in your nervous system, which mean, which we know means that the world does not feel safe. It doesn't feel accessible.
And shame thrives under secrecy. And so, yeah, I love that. You talked about how you're using defensiveness as that wall. Of people can't see me like this. Oh gosh. They found me out. I have to put up a shield. I have to hide or deflect as much as I can. Um, So. Yeah, some helpful things to consider. If you're feeling that.
I think that there's maybe some inner work around. Your own recognizing what shame story are you holding onto? And working through [00:18:00] that. Absolutely. And I think thinking about when we go into that shame spiral, where we start to. Um, exist in a place of we're not good enough, or we go down that ladder in our mind, most people can track their, oh, I thought this which leads to that, which lead to somehow I'm not good enough. Right.
Then we go down that spiral. That when we get to that fight flight freeze response, there are some of us that are fighter and we're, we're probably going to come out with more criticism and we're going to have more. Blaming angry language where some people that go into more of a freeze place are going to have more.
Of a stonewalling. Um, defensive place where. Where you're just not going to say anything at all. You're going to shut down and be really quiet. I think the. The flea people come to a similar place of like, we're just not going to talk about it. And so I think. Identifying how these communication responses.
Really [00:19:00] play into that shame spiral in, in our lives and every relationship that we have and, and in our approach of life, if we go into a shame spiral and we are. We are stonewalling or we are feeling defensive that we really pull away from the world, or we really come at the world in a very aggressive way.
So criticism versus defense. Yeah. If you're already in that state of mind, then you're showing up to work. Someone does something you automatically think that they're out to get you. They did that to you on purpose. You're overly aggressive or you get to work and someone does something to you and you take it as a personal offense of, they hate me. No one pays attention to me. Everything.
I was wrong. I don't feel like I belong here. Or we show up at work in a place of, we tuck our head. We don't interact. We shut the world out. We're invited to go to lunch or with. Out. And we say no, because we're really in that place of, we're not good enough to show up in the world [00:20:00] where we have created a wall of defensiveness around us that we don't let people in.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, So our next little section is we can touch on it. Maybe. This is a huge topic. So we're not going to say that we're going to fully cover this topic because it probably needs its own episode. If not, I don't know. 10 episodes of its own. But talking about how shame, um, Chaman parenting.
Techniques come into play. So how do we use criticism and defensiveness when we're interacting with our kids? Um, and how, when we, and how you can maybe see that reflected back in your kids' reactions to you, right. So if you're using a critical language, when talking to your kid, Um, how is that feeding [00:21:00] their own negative core beliefs about themselves? And how does that then maybe do they turn it around on you and become defensive or critical back towards you?
I think we don't do this topic justice. Without maybe. I think wanting to step into my own belief system around this just really quick, um, that I do believe, and I think there's some research that can back this up now, but this has been my humbly humbly for a long time that we punish kids physically. And that's how we knew how to be parents. And then when that became not okay, the idea of tough love, tear them down so you can build them up.
Um, keep him humble or somehow we have to have control over them. In order to raise them to be healthy adults. Those are some of the mentalities we're thinking belief systems that came into play. Of how to parent children and that those all, all of those pieces come from a [00:22:00] place of shame that we have to tear them down. We have to let them know where control we have to let them know we have power. How do we do that by criticizing them by telling them that they're not enough by pointing out their flaws by telling them what they do wrong by doing all of those things.
And then we're the givers of salvation by then giving them a compliment and expecting that to make things better or building them back up. But really what we've done is created. Children that live in a world of shame as if they're not enough. And we're the enemies with that. His parents, if that's how we're parenting, that we're the ones that have hurt them and harmed them and created really, really deep wounds.
And they don't heal from that by then being told that they're okay. And they're amazing. It doesn't work that way. There's research to back that up. It's really unhealthy parenting techniques and it really does create animosity and relationship dynamics for life. As we talked about in our first episode, [00:23:00] that.
Children becoming adults and having adult adult relationships. There's a shift in the dynamic of power that has to happen. And when we create a dynamic of power through shame and criticism, Uh, it's really hard to rebalance that as adults or we hold onto it as adults. And we continue to criticize our children and remind them that somehow they're not living up to our standards, even as adults, instead of.
Coming from a place of acceptance and, and seeing the positive and the good while. Also being able to say how you could have made different choices instead of you are bad, you are broken, you are wrong, different again. In communication about how you could choose differently and make choices for your life versus you're just broken and not worthy of being in the world.
Yeah. And. I've seen this popping up. Uh, at least in my social media threat, a lot of. Parents, um, of adult children getting on social media and. W one [00:24:00] specifically I have in my head of this woman being like, I don't understand how someone could just leave after you've put all of your hard work and care into this child, and then they just turn 18 and then they turn their back on you.
And it's like, Hmm. Maybe there was more going on there. You know of. We don't ever turn our back on relationships that we feel like are, um, mutually loving and caring and maybe their child's trying to have conversations with them about change. That weren't well received. Um, obviously we don't know the full background.
But, um, yeah, it's interesting how a lot of parent child relationships don't make it through that. I would call it a rumbling. Um, Phase. Uh, between 18 to maybe 2021. Um, [00:25:00] where. As a parent, you are having to. Let go. Let them. Fly out into the world. And also as a kid, you then have the choice of, is this a relationship I want to stay in or is it not.
Absolutely. I think, just listening to the wording that you said of the lady of how could you, or why would they write right in that you're already stepping into that shame and blame language. Just in her comment to the rest of the world, which gives you a pretty clear indicator of maybe what that relationship looked like. Even though, as you said, we don't know. Yeah. That's a good point.
Um, I think that.
One thing that we should caveat this conversation with is. Uh, you know, better, you do better. So once, you know, better, you do better. We don't want to have this be a conversation where you leave feeling, shame about how you've been parenting your kid. Right. We're not bringing this up to shame anyone about maybe how they parented their kids. If [00:26:00] you're in your eighties and listening to this, and you're like, wow.
Why did I do that? Um, again, that was a shaming. Term, like we don't need to know why it's more about what could I have done. That was different. Or even more so creating movement around what can I do now? Yeah. And what can I change in my vernacular? In order to create a different language and communication style with my child.
Uh, regardless of what age they are really stepping into more of the being curious in the help me understand place versus the, why do you do this? And you should do this.
Yeah. So coming to a place of. Maybe self-compassion of. I didn't know better when I was doing those things. Um, but now you know about our, you can do better. So taking accountability, stepping into a place of. Curiosity and learning about [00:27:00] how maybe you can make positive changes in. Your relationships with your.
Um, Kids are with your parents. Um, you know, if you've been raised in this way, then you might also be coming into conversation with your parent. From a place of shaming, then criticizing them. If that's how you are. Uh, communication style has been for the, for your whole life. Then you're probably in a pattern of.
Communicating in that way. So just an opportunity to check in and notice. How are you? How are you choosing to communicate? With your kids are with your parents. Absolutely. No. Well, all right. So, um, we're going to hop into our last little two questions. Um, it takes two to tango. So, uh, we're going to talk [00:28:00] about the question of when I'm in a shame spiral, how does that impact my relationship with others and what is my responsibility? So maybe we've talked.
A bit about how that impacts your relationship, but maybe. Specifically talking about like, how is that? My responsibility. Yeah, I would say very clearly with that when you're in a shame spiral, how does that impact relationships? It can impact through our defensiveness and it can impact through us being critical.
Um, so either we pull away or we attack. And what is our responsibility? For me, the responsibility is to get curious with yourself. Um, what's happening inside of me. What is the reasoning behind my reaction? Take accountability for that own it. And then if there's a concern that you have with another person, approach that in a kind way.
And ask the questions in a way that doesn't [00:29:00] create shame. Yeah. I would add onto that, of. If you notice that you're going into a shame sprout when you're in the middle of a conversation. Full permission to say. I need to pause this conversation because I am spiraling. Yeah. And I'm going to start.
Um, Acting in a way, saying things in a way that I don't feel good about. And so I need a break. I need a pause. Um, Because trying to do that internal work of questioning, getting curious, understanding what triggered your shame. Uh, And ways that you and your partner, are you in the person that you're talking with? Can, um,
Change the narrative or change the way you're coming at the subject. All of those curiosity questions. Are going to be impossible to try and figure out when you're in the middle of a conversation. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. So being able to pause and step back. I also always find it interesting. The, [00:30:00] uh, what do we do about it usually occur steps ahead of where we're at.
Because in order to say, Hey, I'm noticing the shame spiral. Uh, I need to take a pause first. We have to know what that is in us. How we feel that in us. What comes up in us. And being able to have, um, that. That insight into ourselves that, that proprioception really like, know where we're at and know what's happening in us first.
That's our mindfulness stuff. Of being able to notice. Uh, Have I stepped out of regulation. Um, what's going on in my body. What are the. Body signals. Um, I always come at it as the yoga teacher. From a place of physicality first. And I truly believe in again, there is research to back this up. Our bodies are very.
Uh, reactive and responsive. Our bodies often know things before we cognitively know [00:31:00] things. Absolutely. We work from a very top down in our society, but our bodies work from the bottom up. Um, so.
One thing that I always like to have my, uh, my self do, but also that I try and have students work through is thinking about holding. Uh, A phrase or a term of like, remember back to a scenario that you felt guilty for. And remember that's using language of. Oh, I could have made a different choice or, um, I could have done something different.
And notice what that feels like in your body when you say those things or where you remember back to that time. And then do the same thing. But for a shaming trigger. So. Saying one of those maybe negative core beliefs of I'm not enough. I feel. Broken. [00:32:00]
And notice. What that feels like in your body? For me and in my body, very different. Um, so notice what that feels like in you. Um, some things that could also be a helpful signal of noticing if you're spiraling could be. Um, increased heart rate, sweaty palms, clenching your fists, clenching your jaw. Um, not wanting to make eye contact with people anymore. Turning away from people.
That you're in conversation with those are signals that you're going into those stages of fight flight and freeze. Um, And as we've said a little bit, you're going down your ladder, which we're talking about polyvagal theory, which where you're going to be doing an episode on for. Here shortly. Definitely because, uh, it's helpful.
Languaging for our audience to know what we're talking about. And it's helpful information for you guys to know. So we'll go into that a little bit more, but those are some of the [00:33:00] body signals. Like penny said, if you don't have the. The understanding or the mindfulness piece to be able to know that you're spiraling then. Yeah. You don't know to tell the other person that you need to stop.
Um, then that's your first step and responsibility is learning that about yourself and make you mad a commitment. Uh, to gain that knowledge and that understanding and do the work so that you can have that moment of pause and don't do damage in relationships. I love that your responsibility to start being more mindful about your on.
Um, bodies or actions understanding that and your own, maybe shame triggers. I know that there are definitely specific things with me and my significant other that. I know. Well in advance that. Those kinds of topics or shame triggers for me. And so when we're having conversations about them, We need to come at them from a very different place, with a little bit more [00:34:00] care and a little bit more openness than we would for other conversation, like setting up a conversation around a topic that I know I hold a lot of shame around is very different for me than coming into a conversation around a topic that.
Just feels like, oh yeah, yeah, that's fine. We can talk about that. I think it's interesting how much education we have around. If you're going to use this product. There's warning labels about how it could be poisonous, right. Or if you're going to use. This. Item or this weapon here's ways to do it safely. Um, we create.
Safety conferences and safety conversations and safety rules and safety plans. Um, and so we understand the risks associated with things. But we don't do that for ourself. And we are just as much of a, a risk or a weapon. Um, that can harm people in our life, in. In, you know, internal or external. If we get angry and we assault someone or we [00:35:00] say something and it's a verbal assault, whatever that looks like, then maybe we need to understand ourselves as weapons.
Um, and, and possible. I don't know ways of destruction. However you want to look at that, right? Because we can go through life and really hurt people and hurt things. If we don't learn about ourselves and we don't have our own little. Our own little safety manual, or our own little warning labels of, Hey, this is how, what I know impacts me. This is what I know is gonna make me go off. This is what I know. This feels like it. My body.
And here's how I know what to do with it, because I mean, we are, we are definitely. We can be our own form of weaponry. And so knowing how to have that and manage that as important. Yeah. That's a very interesting way of looking at it. Um, Very helpful. Um, definitely. All right. So it's time to spin the wheel for a body question. So go ahead and spin penny. [00:36:00]
Six. Alright. So your question is how. Does guilt and shame feel different in your body? I feel like we've covered this a lot. And I can make it very, very personal to myself. Um, Guilt for me, definitely has a feeling of movement and motivation where I will journal, or I will create lists or goals for change and a plan of how I'm going to change it.
Where shame is much more of a. I don't do anything. Sit on the couch, shut into myself or set until the world. Yeah, I've never thought about. The physicality of. Guilt.
Um, Being that of. When I know I've gone through something and then I'm like, oh, I really need to make a plan around that. [00:37:00] I've never realized that. Yeah, that's a, that's a guilt motivator. That's interesting. I don't want to have this happen again. I'm going to do it different next time. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I can make a different choice. I can manage it differently. I can plan around a differently.
I feel enough control and motivation. Nice. Alright. I will speak.
Oh one. Alright. So an odd for me. Um, What are the negative physical impacts of shame? So if we're talking from a scientific perspective around. How shame impacts. The body. Shame and criticism. Releases cortisol in our bodies and cortisol. Is a stress hormone and it's known to lead to changes [00:38:00] in our sleeping habits. So you might be oversleeping or under sleeping. Uh, changes in our appetite. So again, you might be overeating or undereating and changes in our weight. So, um, being in a constant state of stress can, again, lead to either.
Increased weight or decreased weight. At a pace that does not feel healthy. Um, so that's more of a scientific look at how shame can impact us. Physically. I also think that it's important to recognize that when we're in that. Mine's space or in a place of constant shame. Or criticism. We feel. Like the world is not safe. Like we said, and when we feel like the world isn't safe and it's not safe for us to be in the world, we aren't reaching out to people. We aren't finding those connections.
[00:39:00] Um, and we're isolating ourselves, which also really negatively impacts our physical and mental health. So we know we're really social creatures when we're in places of shame all the time. That's significantly decreases our ability to be social, to have those meaningful connections. Um, and.
I think that it's important to talk about how.
Uh, chronic. Or constant. State mental state of shame and criticism can very easily lead to feelings of. Suicidality. Um, not feeling enough, not wanting to be around feeling like everyone would be better off without you. Those kinds of. Um, thoughts can very easily come up when we're in a place of.
Either extreme shame [00:40:00] or constant shame. Um, so.
Just want to. End. This with, we've been talking about how shame impacts us on a day-to-day basis, but also chronic shame. Can very easily lead to. Those more. Um, I would say bigger, that's a bigger problem, right? Wanting to end your life a very big problem. Absolutely. So. Just wanting to recognize that if you are recognizing that in your own life,
This might be, uh, a good signal that you. You might want to reach out for help, whether that's professional help. Or whether you're maybe even needing to call a suicide hotline and get some help. Um, please take care of yourselves. Um, shame. Is a big deal and. Our mental health is mental [00:41:00] and physical health is deeply impacted by shame. So.
Um, Yeah, we can leave. The national suicide. Hotline phone number in the description. So. We want to be very respectful of that. Um, okay. Um, It's now time for our rapid fire. So, uh, and we don't have any pre rapid fire questions. So it will be a rapid fire of asking and answering. So, um, penny, do you want to ask me a rapid fire question? Sure. What's your favorite animal?
Um, my favorite animal is cats. Uh, and I would say. Katz of all types. Um, I always think about. During our snowy seasons here, like being a snow cat with big paws prancing around through the woods, like that's my ideal creature to be. Um, but yeah, I love cats. Um, [00:42:00] So, okay. Rapid fire for you. I would ask.
What is your favorite food? I'm a droplet. I believe it's its own food group.
And is there any specific chocolate that you deeply love or deeply hate?
Oh, probably. And I deeply hate, I'm definitely moving more to liking darker chocolate things that are more pure and less like just sweet to be sweet. So more your truck. What I guess. I say hate because I feel like a lot of people really hate white chocolate. Oh,
thanks. Okay. So we have made it to the end of another episode. Thanks so much for joining us. It was wonderful to have you. Um, and just a, a reminder, if you want to support the podcast, if you want to support our work, we have a Patrion setup where you get access [00:43:00] to many episodes. They're companion episodes that kind of go along with the main episode.
So we've talked about core values, finding your own core values. We've talked about, uh, we've had a deeper conversation about shame and. How to recognize your own internal and personal shame. And then we have also talked about some couples. Um, specific skills around, um, turning towards and the emotional bank account in your relationships. So.
If any of those sound interesting to you? You're welcome to pop over and check out the Patrion. And that's under untangling relationships and yeah, we're going to go record our companion episode right now for this episode, which is going to be a deep dive into the antidotes of the four horsemen. So we'll introduce the [00:44:00] other two horsemen, stonewalling, and contempt. And we're going to talk about the antidotes to all of the horseman.
So if you're really connected to this conversation and you want more tools, you want more support? Feel free to go check that out or feel free to check out, um, our. Uh, Companion or our passion project for penny and I, we cold lead a, um, retreats and couples relationships skill. Company. Uh,
and that is Hilltop wellness. And if you go to that website, there's lots of blogs. That have more information and in-person events or online courses where we. Step-by-step walk you through. What changes in skills you can implement into your relationships to. To heal them and make them last. So feel free to go check that out@hilltopwellness.net and we'll [00:45:00] have links to all of that in the show notes.
So thanks so much for joining us. And we'll catch you in our next one. Bye. Bye.
