Ep. 6 Breaking down the core elements to Boundaries (ep. 5 is still coming just lost in the tech. graveyard)
This episode breaks down a lot of myths about boundaries and gives some clarity on the key parts of what boundaries are, how to set them, and how to know when and where you might need more or fewer boundaries. Penney and I are really proud of this conversation and hope you can gain some new perspectives about boundaries!
Hilltop Wellness
www.hilltopwellness.net
Ep. 6 Boundaries
Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to and tangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher and gen X-er and a millennial and a mother and daughter join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janae and penny. Good morning. Good morning and welcome to another episode. Um,
We're on to episode six. We're going to be talking about. Boundaries today. Our topic, Hardy topic. Yeah. One that we definitely. Get a lot of questions on and comes up. Quite often in both of our work and in the work that we do together. With couples, before we hop into the specific questions. Um,
Is there anything that you think. is helpful for people to know off the top. No, I
Penney: don't think so. We can just jump in and if people have [00:01:00] questions, they can always reach out and let us know.
Janae: Yeah. For sure. All right. Let's hop into it then. So, um, we always like to start these off with a definition. So we're all getting on the same page. There can be.
I think a lot of. Miscommunication and misunderstanding around what our boundaries and. And how do you hold them? And I think the first place to start is getting a good definition. So we all know what we're talking about.
Penney: Yeah, absolutely. I have read. At least, I don't know what seven to 10 definitions about what boundaries are and how they're defined. And.
Developing your own definition around what boundaries are. So for the purpose of today, Uh, we're going to define boundaries. Are our values expectations. Principles and limits. That we [00:02:00] set in order to feel safe, physically, emotionally. And mentally. Uh, for herself.
Janae: And then, um, you can also think about. How setting boundaries is really allowing yourself to show up as yourself. Um, it communicates to others. What your stance is or where you stand with them or on certain topics. Um, what you're willing to do and what you're never willing to do. Um, And those can be helpful to have pre.
Set up so that if you end up in a situation. Where those boundaries are pushed people. Can have somewhat of an idea of where you already stand with those. Um, it makes those conversations a little easier if you already have that knowledge within yourself, even. Yeah,
Penney: I do believe that we let people know how we [00:03:00] want to be treated.
And every moment and how we present ourself in the words that we allow to be used. Around us or towards us in how we treat others. Where we're S we're giving people information about that, all of that, all of the time. And so knowing what your boundaries are and knowing how you expect to be treated by others.
Allows us to portray that or not. Not even vocalize that, but like projected. To the world around us and say, this is who I am. This is how I show up in the world. And this is how I expect to be treated and what I looks at and what I want.
Janae: Yeah. I think you can easily look at. Characters was in the media.
Um, Or, you know, people live in your own life, like. You might show up differently in front of a group of your friends. Versus how you show up in a professional [00:04:00] setting. And, you know, that's a communication of, of boundaries on how you're going to personally show up and what you expect and how you expect people to treat you.
Penney: I also look at that as my own personal development at different times in my professional career and my personal life. How I had expected people to treat me. And Ben okay. With people treating me has changed and it has definitely changed the relationships around me. And how people treat me in those relationships.
Janae: Yeah, definitely. Not that there isn't responsibility going both ways, but I think it's empowering to know. That. There are things that you can do to, like you said, project. And inform others on how you expect to be treated and held. And. Boundaries are always a good way to re-empower [00:05:00] yourself, gain control back. And you know, when people don't choose to.
Except your boundaries or work within those boundaries then. It's up to you to take. Take your power back or. Um, enforce those boundaries, I guess.
Penney: Yeah, let's set. You brought up our responsibility to work others. I was reading an article about how boundaries, aren't just how we expect people to treat us, but our rules about how we treat others is another form of a boundary. So.
If you look at boundary as that. Fence or, uh, uh, I don't know, a permeable membrane of some sort that we think about what we allow to come in, but also what we allowed to go out. So depending on what our values are, it also. Relates to how we treat others and what our boundaries are around that. It's interesting. I have.
I was doing some, I was listening to a [00:06:00] podcast. Um, about autism and that. Definition of how they have, we can set up or define ourself in the integrity of who we are. And one of the things that was talked about is the following other rules that need to define and set up our own space and that ignorance.
Around other people's rules and values. The example, being that I don't kill people. I don't not kill people because it's against the law. And somebody has told me don't kill people. I choose not to kill people because I choose not to kill people. And that is against my value system and my beliefs. And it's a boundary I have set for myself and how I treat others.
Same for calling names, using slurs. Demeaning others judgment towards other, those are personal values that I have for myself. Therefore, I also have a boundary around how I treat others within
Janae: those values. [00:07:00] Yeah, I think one other. Thing that goes along with. Your own personal responsibility for those boundaries is.
Andrea's aren't only what is coming in, but what you're sending out. So if you're choosing to share personal information with someone. That maybe isn't. Um, A. Close. Relation with you. You're giving them power. You're giving them personal information. And maybe that's something that. You can reevaluate.
Reevaluate with. You know, who deserves to hear this part of my story? Who am I giving power to? And knowing these things about myself. Not that we want to grow too rigid and isolate ourselves, but. You know, I think it's very easy for all of us to understand. That who's in [00:08:00] your inner circle. And who's allowed to have, who has built that trust with you so that you can communicate.
What's going on on a deeper level versus people more on your perimeter. That maybe haven't gained that trust.
Penney: Sure or think about what you're sending out, if you are okay. Sharing personal information with anyone and you have a very poorest boundary around that, which is okay. Then the message that sends to the people around you is I have very porous boundaries. I'm okay. Sharing information and you're
Janae: also willing to get their opinion back.
Penney: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's what we're projecting. So just thinking about.
How we speak to others. And how we present ourselves to others in so many ways says, this is, this is what my boundaries are. This is what I'm okay with. This is what I'm not. Yeah.
Janae: All right. Um,
So our next section. [00:09:00] He's going to be about. How do you determine what your boundary is? Extra? Actually are. I think this is where people can get really hung up.
Penney: Absolutely. Because if you look at this there's you only need two boundaries. Here's the forming boundaries. I had a client come to me one time. It was given homework from another therapist to define.
The seven. Uh, healthy boundaries and I had no idea what the sub unhealthy boundaries are. I have since looked that up. There are also people that say there are six healthy boundaries or five healthy boundaries. So I, I do think there's a plethora of information out there on what other people have defined our boundaries.
And I think we really want to keep it more. How do you determine what your own boundaries are? And instead of having to follow a list of here's, how I'm going to follow other people's lists of boundaries.
Janae: Yeah, they're so personal to you that. Uh, I think those are helpful resources for people who maybe don't even know where to start.
And maybe they can use that as a jumping off [00:10:00] point. But I think prescribing specific things to people is not helpful because we're all unique and the relationships that we're in are unique. And as we gave in the definition, These things are based off of. Your own values, your expectations, your principles, and limits. And no one else can define those things except for yourself. So.
This is really a, um, Your personal project, right?
Penney: And a boundary. I'm not going to allow other people to tell me what my boundaries are. I'm going to choose those for myself because it is about me. And for me, And when I have other people tell me what my boundaries are, what do I tell the world? That I'm okay with them. Defining me.
And what my value is and what my beliefs are versus I'm going to define them for
Janae: myself. Yeah. I'm okay. With other people deciding how I'm going to show up. Yeah. Absolutely. So that's a funny paradox. Yes, it is. Okay. So we just have some [00:11:00] helpful tips on maybe how to start. And where to get junk going. Your rights maybe is a good place to start. So.
Penney: What are your rights in the world? I believe that I have a right to be heard. I also have believed that I. The other people have a right to be heard. I have a right to be treated with kindness and dignity. I believe that I have a right to. Safety. And to define what happens with my body and with my brain and what I allowed to come into it and what goes out of it. So those are our things for me personally, I have really, really strong feelings.
About my rights about independence. And, um, that self-determination. And resilience. Those are strong beliefs. I have about rights. And if someone tries to take away my rights to independence or [00:12:00] tell me what I have to do or what I can't do. And those don't align with my own belief system. I really pushed back against that. That's a hard boundary for me. So knowing what my.
Rights are. And what I believe are my basic rights as a human. Is a good place to start with that. Yeah, I, I. I think one that comes to my mind is the right to show up. Authentically in spaces. And the right to take up space. Um, and show up. Is a big one.
Janae: All right. The next step in kind of determining your boundaries is listening to your body. So.
This can be something that you do. Retroactively after maybe you've realized that a boundary has been crossed. You can use that as feedback of oh, you know, that didn't feel good. Um, what were the cues and signs that my [00:13:00] body gave me the. That I can then take and use as helpful information moving forward. For me, it is a ramrod up my spine. Definitely. We talked about that. My belief about the right for autonomy and independence.
Penney: If someone steps into that space of taking that away from me. I get a very straight back. Spine in alignment, stiffness in my body. That is one way. I feel it in my body. I also can get that sinking feeling in my stomach when a boundary has been crossed, or I have allowed a boundary to be more porous than I want it to be where I feel almost sick.
And some feeling a fear around, I know I have to step into a conversation about resetting this boundary and pushing back, and it's almost like a, that. Grit up your loins or get ready for battle because we have to go in and re-establish and reset and redraw the line. And a preparation for that. That's where I feel it [00:14:00] in my body. Yeah. Those are great examples. I think that it's always helpful to know.
Janae: That.
Our bodies. Understand and react to things. Far quicker than our brains. Absolutely. Our bodies are the first. Um, line of sense and this first line of sense making, so tapping into that resource. It's helpful. And if you've never done that before, It's just a practice. It's a practice of listening, a practice of being mindful and noticing what's going on. Um, so.
Something to just start getting curious about yeah, I think absolutely thinking about, um, we've talked before about shame reactions. Definitely for me. If I have chosen to cross somebody else's boundary or I haven't aligned. With my own beliefs towards others. I feel that curling in on myself, [00:15:00] shame.
Penney: Reaction around boundaries, whether I, I allowed them to be crossed or I don't communicate it well, Or I feel I have violated my belief about how to treat others. There's another feeling that comes up for me. Yeah, I think that's an interesting. Flip of how does your body feel when someone has. Pushed back on your boundary. And how does it feel when maybe you've pushed out of your own boundaries? Like we were saying at the beginning,
Janae: It goes both ways. Yeah. Oh, I felt ready for battle. I feel it. Definitely. Yeah. Okay. Our next. Question you might ask yourself are what are my core values? What are. The deep held beliefs within my life that. I want to base my actions that I want to project my. Personality [00:16:00] or my actions around, um, towards others.
So, so luckily this is something we have defined in one of our many episodes. If you haven't had a chance to go to Patrion and hear that. So I know what my top five values are that I can align. My boundaries around. If you don't know, um, you're welcome to go listen to that episode or. Uh, checking in with yourself and ask what your values are. So my top five are stability, meaningful work, family, adventure, and health.
Penney: So for me, my values are going to be set. Around maintaining those. I guess integrity around those things for myself. So I'm not going to allow boundaries to be crossed that are going to threaten my stability. So if somebody asks me for a loan of money, that's going to threaten the stability financially of myself or my family.
Then I'm going to say no about that, or I'm not going to make decisions. That crossed the [00:17:00] boundary about stability or threatened the stability of others. As an example, also meaningful work is a value for me. So I'm not going to make decisions around my career, around my education. Around other peoples, uh,
Around that also an interesting boundary and how that's going to, how that has come up. Throughout my lifetime and throughout a mom. Being a mom, excuse me, is I have always passed on that. If one person in the family works, everybody's working and we need to be actively engaged in something. In our lifetime that doesn't have to mean, we always have to be working for being actively engaged in pursuing something as important. So meaningful work.
Isabel embryo. Three of mine that I. I hold too strongly. And. If somebody pushes back against that about.
I guess, what, what does that mean? Or what does laying on the beach mean? Not that I don't think that that's [00:18:00] important. I think restful time is important, but I do think we need to be involved in something meaningful and pushing forward. So we do have boundaries around that. I would say that. That makes sense that it comes from.
Janae: A very researched based place where we know that. Having meaningful connection and contribution to society and to your life and others' lives. Is beneficial to our mental health. And it's beneficial to our community building and our feelings of connection with others. So when you see someone. Within your family that maybe isn't.
Putting forth. That. Contribution isn't. In case isn't engaging and maybe it's holding themselves back and make sense of why that is a triggering. Feeling for you because of the background knowledge around that. Absolutely. And then the other parts of that for me, family. Um, [00:19:00] I'm definitely a mama bear when it comes to protective boundaries around my family and people harming my family.
Penney: And around myself being kind to members of my family. And adventure. I'm protective over adventure. That's. That's a strong boundary for me. Uh, that comes before work. If I. I plan adventures. I make sure adventures happen. And if I feel resistance from people around that, I pushed back about this as a boundary of mine that I need to have this. This is important for me.
And communicate that openly and then help. So those are my values and how my boundaries have come to align and how I communicate those. Yeah. Um, really good examples. So getting curious about what are your own core values? And. Maybe even getting some background on where do those core values come from? Why do you hold [00:20:00] them?
Janae: What past events or past beliefs or a family held beliefs. Created that core value. So that, you know, why, so that when maybe someone pushes back, you have a strong foundation of knowledge of knowing. No, this is important to me. This is why I know this is important to me. And. I can hold that boundary easier.
Um, Okay, so our next question is two. Define and. And. Get curious about what needs to change. Sure. So if we are not holding to boundaries, aligned with our values and our rights, and we're feeling uncomfortable in our body, then we know that there's a value that needs change around it. And. Or, sorry, there's a boundary that needs to be established, set, communicated, whatever that is.
Right. Yeah. So usually those [00:21:00] first three. As a guide post of. Where have you felt like maybe those rights haven't been withheld? Where. In what relationships or what spaces do you feel like your body has these kinds of reactions that communicate to you? That a boundary is being crossed and. Yeah. Where are your values maybe not being held or expressed easily or where have you not had integrity around your boundaries?
Penney: Mm, or around your values, excuse me. I'm getting those words mixed up and I apologize. So, yeah. Well, what are my rights? How is my body telling me my rights are being violated. And how are my values being compromised? Yeah. And then defining what that is. How, what does that all lead to? Because that's where a boundary needs to be established or changed.
Janae: And that could be a, a boundary in a relationship that could be a boundary in how [00:22:00] you are. Choosing to show up in how you're choosing to talk with people and what you're choosing to share. It could be a boundary around time, around. Service. There's so many different examples on things that I think a lot of people.
Think boundary and they think, oh, okay. I need to have a very hard conversation. Then I have to continually remind people. Um, And that's it. That's not necessarily true. Um, for your example, with your boundary around adventure, that could easily be blocking parts of your year off to go on adventures. It could be.
Creating boundaries within yourself or within your partnership, just put a certain amount of money away towards that. Towards adventure. So. You can get as creative as you want in how you're choosing to set those boundaries for yourself or for others. [00:23:00] And it doesn't always necessarily mean. It's going to be.
A sit-down conversation. Yeah. I think another one, I think that's really common. Can happen in the workplace. So one of my rights. Uh, a belief I have about rights is the right to autonomy and independence. And I have been in jobs, in fact, multiple jobs where I can feel that. Supervisors were the workplace environment or culture?
Penney: Takes away that feeling of autonomy and independence, and you feel the need to people please, and, uh, follow through on tasks that. You maybe don't have time for that, push your limits around it. And that can come up around my values when the time at work and the influence of work starts to influence my belief about adventure and my belief about protecting and caring for my family. And even my [00:24:00] belief about security, maybe I lose money at work, or my job is threatened financially.
And, or I'm spending more time at work that I'm not getting paid for. So all of those, I feel that so first off I feel it. That my rights are being violated because those are my personal rights. I can feel it in my body as I'm starting to feel burned out entire we're angry and defensive at work that can come up either way. It has come up both ways for me.
And then how I can see that what I'm doing at work, I'm going to be an expected to do at work does not align with my values. And then I realized something has to change and I have to set a boundary somewhere around that. Yeah, definitely. I think work is probably a really big. Trigger for most people.
Janae: Definitely. Um, okay. So define what needs to change. Get curious, get creative with those solutions on what, what does need to change. [00:25:00] Um,
I also, so. One last thought on that is so many people think, oh, I just need to cut this person out of my life. Whore. Um, you know, they're toxic. I just need to cut them out or I need to, in your example, quit my job. That's a very all or nothing thinking very black and white. Um, what boundaries give you the flexibility to do is still show up in those relationships. Still show up.
At work. Um, But show up from a place of integrity within yourself. I think I've talked to so many people about, and I'm sure you have too in therapy situations about. My family does this. My mom does this. And hearing people say, oh, stop talking to your family.
Yeah. Talking to your mom. Um, Or, you know, Get out of that [00:26:00] relationship breakup. Yeah, those kinds of things. I think that it is a disingenuous advice to tell people that. Unless you're willing to do that yourself. Right? Think about cutting yourself completely off of your family. Cutting yourself completely off.
Of your financial security around your job. Right. Those things are easier said than done. So if you've been given that advice or that's what you think boundaries are. I think that's a myth that we want to bust in this episode, for sure. Um, there are smaller actions that you can take to still show up.
With integrity without. Going to those dramatic extremes. Absolutely. And to reinforce the idea of resilience and self-empowerment, I want to feel empowered in relationships to set boundaries. I don't want to feel fear of boundaries. So I run and don't give myself empowerment. Right. I think that's the opposite. If I.
Penney: Run away from it. Walk away from it. Out of fear [00:27:00] of that, the boundary will be honored. I won't be able to set it. I won't be able to hold it or people are genuinely bad and won't respect my boundaries. That's a fear-based response, not an empowered response. It's also another example of someone else controlling your actions there, your fear around.
Janae: How they might react. Causes you to maybe not set a boundary and just leave or run away as you're saying. Yeah. And then again, you're allowing someone else to control how you're showing up. Yeah, which is, as you said, one of your belief about rights. So that's going to be a boundary that you hold to.
Penney: Yeah, absolutely. So I, I definitely. We give people a chance to honor your boundaries, give people a chance to hear that and be willing to approach people from a place of here's what I believe my rights are. And, and here's what I can define my boundary. As in my example about the workplace, I would really want to look at.
How do I come up with a [00:28:00] solution that I can take to my boss that will honor my beliefs about my rights and about my values. And if I can't come up with a solution for that, and I can't come up with a boundary that can be. Honored after I presented, then I can choose to look for another place of employment.
Or I can. Well, we don't choose to continue to have our boundaries or our values not honored. So, how do we find a way to make that work? In a different way. Do you think that there is a situation where someone. Goes through that process. They go and present that to the other person. The other person does not feel equipped to honor that request in boundary.
Janae: And then the person then decides. And if I'm okay with this, or maybe they decide, okay, Maybe I don't need these things. Do you think that that could be a, maybe this was a value that I thought I had, but actually I [00:29:00] don't. I think if you've really stepped into what you believe your rights and values are.
Penney: I don't know that we do, if we're coming from a place maybe of entitlement or pie in the sky, but I really believe if you go through the process. Of what is really my values in life. You're not going to be happy, staying there and you will eventually leave. So start to look for alternatives for what that looks like.
I also do think when we present our, our boundaries with people in a calm and will. We'll talk about what that looks like, but if we present it to people in the right way, I don't think people immediately go, I'm not going to honor your boundaries or I can't see where you're coming from.
It happens. It's not. Uh, 0%, but I do think some of that is heard somewhere. If we come with a solution and a reason why. Yeah. Just a random thought. I am hearing so yeah, I would agree. I think that. It's always worth a try. [00:30:00] And if it goes badly, then you know that that didn't work. So you can then go to the all or nothing. Look for something different.
Uh, but make a plan. Don't just, uh, Pull the rip cord. Okay. So, um, once you've figured out or defined what needs to change the next step is to write your new boundary out. There's a lot of understanding around. Physically writing things out helps you to solidify those in your brain. Um, helps you to remember them.
Janae: And you can write it out in a place that you look at often you can write it in. On a piece of paper and then burn it like. However that process is for you. But writing it down. Can be helpful. Yeah, absolutely. And then the next step of that after you read it down is if this is a boundary that you need to share with someone or establish or set with someone.
Penney: Then when are you going to have that conversation? [00:31:00] And, and set a time up to do that. Put that on your paper too, but I'm going to talk with this person about this at this time.
Janae: Yup. And. I'm trying to remember what episode it was that we talked about this. I think it was an episode too, with them, with the mother daughter relationships around.
Going into those conversations with. Expectations and managing your expectations around that, how that conversation's going to go. Exactly like the conversation with your boss around your boundaries. Going into it with the expectation. That I'm going to have the conversation and here are some options I am willing to accept or not accept, but expecting things to go. However, they go because you, they could go bad. They could go good. They could go somewhere in the middle. You can come into a place of compromise. So be open to.
Penney: What that can look like. Don't be completely set. Just know that in the conversation. You know, you need to honor your rights and [00:32:00] values. And that boundary that you've chosen to set. Yeah. Awesome.
Janae: All right. We're going to take a moment to talk about the sponsor for this episode. So. The this episode is sponsored by Hilltop wellness. Hilltop wellness is a retreat and event company based in Southeastern Idaho. And they provide online courses weekend, retreat, and day events for personal development in couples therapy.
Hilltop wellness invites you to join them on a healing major retreat. This summer, you can get more information@hilltopwellness.net. And the link for that will be in our show notes. So thank you. And I'll. Top on this for sponsoring our episode.
Okay. We're now going to hop into why we fear setting boundaries. Like what gets in the way. Um, What are the internal.
Gremlins [00:33:00] saying an internal term. Turmoil that might be coming up.
Um, Go ahead, honey. So my belief around fear of sending boundaries is something that starts early in childhood around parenting. If we have parents that don't talk about feelings, emotions, Or honor feelings and emotions. We often bury those. Don't recognize them and understand. So when we talk about what I believe my rights are, what do I feel in my body? Or what am I values? Maybe those are things you haven't explored before, because you haven't checked in with your feelings around rights and values or your feelings in your body. We don't have that connection to our body.
Penney: So that's something that can get in the way of setting boundaries. Another thing is we grow up with this idea of what it means to be a good girl or a good boy, or to be compliant. If we are compliant, we are good. If we are not compliant, we are bad. If we follow rules, the other set for us, we are good. [00:34:00] If we don't follow rules, other set for us, we are bad.
Janae: What does it mean to be a good child? A good, um, Kid sibling. Older sibling, younger sibling, a good member of your family. Oh, absolutely. If you think about all of the, the ways that this is violated, as far as who you're expected to hug, who are you expected to kiss? Are you expected to eat all the food on your plate?
Penney: Uh, where, how uncomfortable are we? Okay. Getting in our bodies because we're expected to, don't be, don't be a pansy jump in the lake. Right? Who cares? If it's cold? Why are you cold? If you live in a house where. The thermostat is really low and their judgements around whether you're comfortable in your body and comfortable in your space. There are so many.
Boundaries like a violated for children and that we grow up thinking is normal and okay. And relationships. Because that is what we are being told. So, yeah, I do [00:35:00] believe there's a very base thing around that. If we don't grow up in families where we can express, I'm really cold, I need this or I'm full and I'm feeling that in my body, I need this. I am uncomfortable hugging. So-and-so.
I am uncomfortable when so-and-so kisses me. I am uncomfortable going to so-and-so's house, whatever that is or whatever. Um, those boundaries that we are allowed to set as a child, if those are heard and listened to when our emotions are honored and our needs are honored, I think we're better at setting boundaries. We don't have to learn that as much when we're adults.
Janae: Yeah, I think that. You give a lot of good examples around physical boundaries, some emotional ones that you hear a lot is, um, don't. Don't cry. Um, don't beam don't you're so over emotional don't be dramatic. Um, don't make a scene. Um, we act. A certain way.
or we don't act that way in public. So you're really re. [00:36:00] Repressing and suppressing a lot of your feelings and emotions. And understanding where are safe places to truly express yourself. And maybe there aren't any safe places.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay. And another thing that can come up to create fear is fear of rejection. Feeling not good enough. Not being accepted, not being connected. And again, I think that this can come up around childhood. Beliefs and patterns. That developed at a young age. If you're feeling. Sad and. People in your family do not accept that as a.
Acceptable feeling to be expressed then maybe you were sent to your room or [00:37:00] in timeout, or maybe you were just ignored and isolated because of that. Then you might feel rejected from your family or there's something wrong with you? Um, or fear of a loss of connection. The connection is. Primary importance in our world as humans. And so to fear losing that.
Penney: Is is really scary. And it creates a, if I set a boundary, I will lose people. I will lose connection. I will be alone. I won't be enough. Those are really strong feelings. Another thing that comes up often is, uh, people will be able to be angry at me. They won't like it. They'll be unhappy. They'll be angry at me.
Yeah. So this goes along with our fear around anger and our inability we're. I don't know if it's an inability or really just a fear to let people be angry. It's okay. For people to be angry. Or is that, uh, there's been safety concerns in the past when people have been angry and then it's really not okay for us. And so there's a lot of fear around [00:38:00] anger.
Janae: yup. Um, Which then makes us feel like we need to step in and fix it. Or just not express it. Or not unexpected at all. Yep. We also configure disappointing others. If I set a boundary, if I don't do all of the work for my boss, if I don't emotionally take care of someone, if I take time off. If I take care of my own needs, people will be disappointed that I'm not strong enough. I can't run fast enough. I can't work enough. I can't, whatever that is, people will be disappointed in me.
Penney: And again, I think these often go back to the loss of fear of connection or just right. The other people will see us differently or judge us. And they're so based around shame. Yeah. Or you think about the people within family dynamics, where they're having to show up a certain way. I have a fear of disappointing.
Janae: Mom or dad or grandma or whoever. If I show up authentically and myself, or, you know, yeah. Express these [00:39:00] boundaries, then I'm going to disappoint them. Like you said, I think that a hundred percent goes back to. What happens then? Will they reject me? Will I be disowned? Will I be disconnected from my family? Those are very valid fears. Yeah.
Penney: Also this fear that we will be seen as selfish or self-centered. I hear that all the time. Uh, is it okay for me to think about me or worry about me? Isn't that selfish or isn't that prideful or isn't that. Um, stuck up or narcissistic, or I've heard so many different terms for that. It is okay for you to take care of you, but there is definitely a fear around being seen as being selfish or self-centered.
Janae: Yeah, definitely. And I think that.
All of these go back to, as we've been saying that core need of wanting connection, but also I think goes back to that core. Those negative core beliefs we have [00:40:00] about ourselves that lead to shame stories of, oh, I'm going to be found out. They're going to think that I am selfish. They're going to think that I am.
Um, a bad kid, a bad partner, a bad husband, wife, dad, mom. The name person. Yeah. I'm a mean person that hurts others. I don't care for others. I don't take care of others. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, And then you have your fear of ruining relationships, right? That disconnection. Fear of the relationship.
Has to end. And this kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier about. People having the belief of, if they set a boundary, the relationship. It has to end. Not has to, but there's a high chance that it will end. That's not necessarily the case. Um, You can set a boundary and there can be compromise or communication around things. It doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship is going to end. It [00:41:00] doesn't mean that it might be a smooth path.
Penney: It may mean, depending on the skill of both individuals. There may be some storming and pushback and some conflict in the middle conflicts. Okay. Conflict can happen. We can manage and ride through conflict. Um, but that's. But it doesn't mean it's going to ruin your relationship. It doesn't mean it's going to change your relationship. That's the goal. Is it something changes, but it doesn't mean that it's going to ruin it.
Janae: Yeah, I can think of a lot of relationships that I had to learn to set boundaries. And understand my own boundaries and how to express those from the. The transition period between 18 to like 2122. And how a lot of those. Relationships.
Completely changed. How I chose to date, how I chose to show up in the world. My relationship with my parents. With my siblings with my workplace, um, with my own health. [00:42:00]
My own body. Um, all of those really went through big transitions and.
I think. Bringing this up because. It's like penny said, it's not necessarily a smooth transition. It was, uh, uh, quite a few years of bumps in the road of. Setting boundaries and then thinking that things were figured out and then having to tweak things or make changes or set stronger boundaries, less strong boundaries and allowing them to be fluid.
I'm in the process of doing that right now, again, with my dad. And it's been. A lot of years. And so boundaries good to be reset reestablished and re-looked at often and changed as needed. For people to be. To honor your rights and your values. It's important, but it doesn't ruin them. It changes them. [00:43:00] I think that if you look at it on the flip side,
If you continue to allow yourself to be in a relationship where your boundaries are constantly being frost. What does that mean? That means that you are allowing your body to. Continually communicate that it feels uncomfortable and you're ignoring it. It means that your rights. Are being violated and you don't feel like people are respecting your rights. It means that your values are not being honored and upheld within yourself or from others.
And do you really want to, or feel like you can participate in a relationship where those three things are happening and is that a relationship that you want to continue? Being in, in that state, in whatever relationship state it's in. Yeah. And I would say that will lead to the ruin of the relationship. If the relationship doesn't change, it will end.
Penney: Yep. There needs to be changes around that in order for it to become healthy. As we get healthy, we need healthy and we seek healthy and [00:44:00] we create healthy. And so that relationship will change and going that direction. I imagine it as like, If you're not. Making those strides of communicating boundaries, having those hard conversations, making those changes. If you're not actively allowing your relationship.
Janae: To grow and change and thrive as a living, breathing. Creature or plant? Um, it's really just dying. It's it's turning to stone. It's withering away. It's dying off and that's just a different form of the relationship getting ruined. Yeah. Agreed.
All right. We're now going to, um, talk about what can be a roadblock or what gets in the way of. Of setting your boundaries. One of them is the inability to say no.
So often. I don't know that there needs to be any more definition behind that, other than say no, if it goes against your. [00:45:00] Rights and your values or a boundary that you have set. If you've already gone through that process, you say no. And that's, that's up. I think that. You can deal with or get curious about.
What's the shame story. What's the. Um, underlying core negative core belief that is coming up that is pushing me. To feel like I can't say no. And what inner work do I need to do? So that I feel like I can say now, and maybe speaking to this from the flip side, instead of it being a poorest boundary, one that gets crossed, um, if it's too rigid of a boundary that we have set for ourselves.
Penney: Then what can get in the way of that is our inability to compromise. So there can be room around compromise. If we have a very rigid boundary that is creating damage. So I, I, and going through that, do I need to reevaluate my boundaries? I'm okay. Here with my boundary. Maybe what I have chosen in the past is too rigid.
I need to make adjustments. So I would say [00:46:00] inability to say no. And perhaps inability to compromise. I think we've talked about this before, uh, the pendulum swing that people can go through. Yes. If you've gone so long without setting any kind of boundary, you can really hop into this work and swing really far. One way you can say no, no, no, no. Hold an extremely rigid boundary, but that can become very, very isolating. Yeah. Right. You can really block yourself off from.
Janae: Other people seeing you fully and also allowing other people into your life and allowing those connections. And then once you maybe swing that way, maybe you swing. Either back to having really porous boundaries, you know, or maybe you find your way to the middle ground. I think we find our way to the middle ground.
Penney: So, yeah. So the next one is inability to watch people fail. You need to step in and rescue, which can come from a lot of different places that could be an entire episode [00:47:00] on its own. So we could just say inability to watch people fail. And if we're talking about, we have an overly rigid boundary, also watching people fail without offering any support. So I think you can look like.
I'm afraid to watch people fail. So I don't hold my boundaries or I. I'm going to just watch people fail because I have an overly rigid boundary. So if I need some place in the middle of that, Yeah, that reminds me of like, um, one of the horsemen that we've talked about around righteous indignation.
Janae: Yes. Of I'm up on my high horse. Oh, look, what happens when you choose to make these decisions and, oh, I'm perfect. And so I'm going to sit back and watch it happen. And then I'm going to laugh at you while you fail. Yes, you can go the other way with that. Okay. Um, another thing that could get in the way is holding others emotional needs over your own.
Putting other people above yourself and their needs and wants over your own that a hundred percent goes back to those three core [00:48:00] things. Holding other people's rights, values, and, um, I guess body autonomy, your body safety over your own. Yeah, absolutely. And the flip side of that, if we have an overly rigid boundary,
Penney: Or if we're not keeping track of what we're also putting out in that boundary about how we treat others, we start to not hear other people's rights, values. And we don't honor their boundaries. So, so it could be the other way. I think that mine are the only ones that matter, or I think yours are the only ones that matter instead of recognizing both matter.
And the healthy boundary both matter. Yeah. And then our last one here, we've been talking about throughout shame of not being enough. Probably a core part. Of this whole conversation. Absolutely. I would say yes.
Janae: Okay. Are coming into. Our last few. Topics here or [00:49:00] last few sections. So it takes two to tango. Um, this is a question for you, penny. In what ways were boundaries modeled to you throughout your childhood? And how did that impact the way you feel about boundaries now? Well, I haven't thought about this one.
Penney: I do think there was the idea of you're not allowed to have emotions. I was definitely told I was too emotional or too loud. Uh, there was punishment around being too emotional, crying, too much feeling too strong about something not being heard and not being seen. So I think. Boundaries were modeled in that boundaries were okay. As long as they were more thought about for like the greater good. If everybody benefits from the boundary, then it's okay. But other than that,
No boundaries or not. Okay. So I don't think boundaries are modeled really well as a child actually.[00:50:00]
Not well at all. And then how does that impact how you feel about them now?
That's hard. I think I have a lot of distance between then and now I have more understanding around how important boundaries are. I am much better at communicating those boundaries. I have done the cut people off and then reassess what that looks like and redefined boundaries and what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not. I'm also much better at.
Coming to someplace in the middle. Pass that up. The pendulum, right. Swung to not having boundaries as a child. Move very much so into that really rigid place of nobody's getting in and I'm not trusting people. And I don't think people were respect or hear my boundaries. So I'm just going to cut people out.
To a place of, I can hear what your boundaries are and I can honor your boundary than your needs while also honoring my own and finding a place of compromise around that. So I would [00:51:00] say the way it's impacted my boundaries now is it's helped me go through that process of identifying what they are and being able to communicate them and be in a healthier place with them. Yeah. A lot of unlearning and relearning things. Yeah.
Janae: Yeah.
Okay. Um,
Boundaries modeled for me in my childhood. I think it was a mixed bag of seeing. Boundaries, either not being there or. Being there, but very rigid. Um, has, you're talking about maybe your transition through the pendulum swing? What's interesting around that is. There's probably a good portion of those.
Pendulum swings that were happening while you were at raising us as kids. Yeah, absolutely. So kind of watching that transformation take place was [00:52:00] I think. Enlightening and helpful to watch. Um, I also don't think I ever heard what are boundaries? How do we define boundaries and how do we set our own boundaries? That was never a conversation, had something researched or something learned.
Penney: So non something communicated.
Janae: I think that for me, How does that impact the way I feel about boundaries now? There were a lot of boundaries. So one of my core values is autonomy. And growing up with a. Chronic illness and a disease that showed up in my body from a very, very young age. I think has impacted why I have that as a core value.
And. It's interesting how maybe. Feeling some boundaries not being crossed or held has created stronger core values in [00:53:00] adulthood of that. Being a stronger importance in my life. Um, So. I feel more confident or more protective around holding boundaries around certain topics.
We can move into. Um, spinning the wheel. Oh, penny, go ahead.
Penney: Even.
So, what does a good boundary feel like in your body? A good boundary feels in my body. Like nothing. If I don't feel that it's been crossed, I don't notice it. It feels comfortable. So there's no feeling.
Janae: Yeah. That makes sense to me. Okay.
All right. I also got an even so I will answer the same question. What does a good boundary feel like in my body? It, I wouldn't describe minus feeling like nothing. I would describe mine [00:54:00] as.
Feeling.
Empowered. Scene. And respected. And if we're giving specific body cues for that. Uh, my body shows up. Differently as. In the way I'm standing or holding myself, I'm taking up space. I'm standing competently. I'm making eye contact. I'm engaging in conversation. I'm not turning away. Or shutting down.
Um, and I'm more open and compassionate. Like I feel. Open to. Hugging people or being more physically affectionate to the people that I'm around or just feeling more. Open physically. Um, And. Yeah, more authentic and. And empowered in the way I'm showing up. [00:55:00]
Makes sense. Okay.
We are ready for. All rapid fire. Um,
Any, if you were on a stranded island, what three items would you bring? So I know I'm going to a stranded island. No. Uh, if you were on a stranded island and you were given three wishes of, or no, that wouldn't work. Because I just want to get off. Uh, yeah, I guess if you knew you had to go survive.
On an island, stranded island, what would you. Bring a knife. A rope. And. A shovel.
You have to ask me something. Um, what is a country or destination that's calling to you right now?
Penney: Um, I [00:56:00] nerded out and watched an hour long. YouTube documentary on Scotland yesterday. So I would say. Scotland. The Highlands are calling to you. Highlands are calling. Yep. Okay. So that's the end of our episode. We hope that you got some good information around boundaries. And work through those steps.
Janae: Or just get more curious about. What boundaries do you already have? And, and how are you relating with others? Yeah, and definitely set them for yourself. Don't let other people define them for you. If anything, recognize setting boundaries. Isn't that I'm going to Google. This is how we set boundaries.
Penney: Um, but, uh, a very intuitive process that we can create for ourself. Yeah. Not needing to look to friends, family, society, social media, to tell us what our boundaries need to be. But having this health confidence in self [00:57:00] knowledge, Of knowing. You get to choose those and come up with those on your own.
Janae: Yep. And nobody else gets to tell you if they're right, or if they they're wrong, because they're yours based on your rights and your values. Yeah, beautiful. So quick reminder, we're going to record our mini episode that comes out in our, in between weeks. So our main episodes come out every other week.
If you're missing us in that in between week and you want some more information. We have many episodes that are between 20 to 30 minutes long. Um, sometimes longer, if we get really long-winded on his specific topic that we really like that's happened. For sure before, but. Um, this specific mini episode is going to be talking about.
How. What are the specific mechanics of the conversation that you're going to have with someone on how you set boundaries? So we were talking about. Okay. [00:58:00] Gone through the steps. You've set a time, you know, you're going to have to communicate a boundary to someone. You'll enter that conversation. What does that conversation look like? How do you show up? What are some skills that you can use to communicate?
Your wants and needs. And your boundaries. So we're going to be breaking that down in our mini episode, over on Patrion. It's $5 a month. If you want to support the podcast, come join us over there and get some. Some extra help tips and skills. Absolutely. Have a good day. Yeah, thanks for joining us. And we'll catch you next time.
Aye.
