Ep. 7 Becoming Business Owners and Relationships in the Workplace

Penney and Janae talk about what it was like becoming business owners through trials, barriers, and industry stigmas. They discuss the different relationships that support them in their work and the importance of those relationships. Join us on Patreon to listen to this week's companion episode on advocating for your mental health at work and recognizing burnout.

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www.hilltopwellness.net - A Retreat getaway for all

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Ep 7. Becoming Business Owners & Relationships in the Workplace

Janae: [00:00:00] Welcome to untangling relationships, a conversation between a counselor and a yoga teacher, a gen X-er and a millennial and a mother and daughter. Join us as we explore the ins and outs of relationships with your hosts, Janine and penny. Hello? Hello. Welcome.

Penney: Yes. Welcome to episode seven. Yeah. Seven, eight. Cause we're gonna have a follow up to this one.

Janae: Yes. That is a good reminder. This is part one of a two part series that we're going to be doing all about.

relationships in business. And part one today is going to be about. Uh, becoming business owners and the relationship. Um, Relationship things that we've gone through so far in our separate businesses. so to kick us off, our first question is what hurdles did you have to overcome to start your own business?

Penney: Maybe a quick intro on, what our businesses are [00:01:00] and how long we've been in business. Just kind of some background information for. Any of our listeners. I started my own business in 2014. with a contract. And then moved into my own counseling practice. five years ago. So 2018.

So really have been in my own. As my own small business owner for nine years. And. Kind of amped it up to the next level about five years ago. So that's kind of my history and where I'm at with my own business.

Janae: Awesome. for me, I started more slowly dipping my toes in, Where I was doing one off. Yoga. Classes or groups, and not teaching full-time or having my business be my full-time income. and that started in 2018. [00:02:00] And then I completely branched off from the yoga studios that I was working for. And.

Started my own. In August of 2021.

Penney: And then both of us joined a collaborative creating a business with other partners. That incorporate the counseling practice and Jenny's yoga practice and doing retreats. And working with couples and individuals in a mental health practice, that's outside of office. So a little bit different as we continue to branch out

Janae: with that business. Yeah. And that started in 2021.

Penney: Yeah, so definitely. Building and then building and then building on what that means to be a business owner, different levels.

Janae: Yeah, it's kind of funny how things tend to, organically start to expand and shift and change. Maybe outside of what [00:03:00] you had originally planned or thought? Yeah, absolutely.

And that as opportunities kind of arise and come up. You, you take them up and you start things. So that's kind of cool. Yeah, absolutely. Next week's episode. For the part two, we're going to dive more into that collaborative experience and we're going to have our two other business partners.

On the podcast with us. So we're really excited about that. but for this part one, we're mostly going to be focusing on our individual businesses. so penny. Popping back to that original question. What hurdles did you have to overcome to start your own business?

Penney: I think the biggest hurdle is that self-doubt.

I'm the primary supporter for my family. And so can you do that and is that viable? What does that look like? Also working for other counseling agencies. There's a lot of, uh, Misinformation. That's probably the kindest [00:04:00] word. Trying to turn to use kind words around that. But definitely fear tactics around how impossible it is to start your own business and how difficult it was for them. And how branching out on your own is, difficult or impossible and stories about, oh, these people left with, they came back and.

And it's definitely some, some fear-mongering. Absolutely. I would agree with that. And so you go into starting your own practice with all of that fear. And what I found is it's just a bullshit. And. it really was not as difficult as I thought it would be, but definitely overcoming that in my own mind.

And I have an amazing spouse who was in my corner. Oh, he had an, a probably ahead of me by five years in. Wanting me to start my own practice and believing in my ability to start my own practice and. A hundred percent recognizing that I could do it and has been very supportive with that process. So he was helpful with that.

I would think other hurdles are [00:05:00] where right. Trying to find a building. That was a challenge. and what do all of the ins and outs look like financially and all the little pieces that coming together, but I would say the biggest hurdle. was that the mental hurdle of that? I also have, she's my office partner. We're not business partners, but we agreed to go into private practice together. It was something we had talked about for years and having not being in that alone and having that support was

Janae: really helpful too.

Yeah. Your relationship with Jenny and kind of having. That other person who's jumping in at the same time, someone to bounce questions off of and lean on. I think was very helpful. Yeah,

Penney: absolutely. That was, it was, Helpful in knowing that I was sharing the risk and the space and. some of the things that I was fearful around, she was able to call out and say, no, that's not true. And things that she was fearful around, I was able to call out. And so we are a good balance for each other that way.

Janae: Yeah. [00:06:00] Where. Would you say that if you had wanted to start earlier.

I'm trying to remember timeline wise. For you with parenting and kids graduating and things shifting within your personal life. Could you have imagined starting sooner or was, did you start when you felt like maybe things at home had settled a little

Penney: bit more. I actually wish I would have started sooner. It would have given me more time and more flexibility around being able to do those things. I was working.

sometimes 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM trying to build somebody else's practice instead of being able to take care of myself and, and being able to take care of my family, that I missed a lot of things that I really wish I would have started sooner. I think the really big shift happened, Jenny and I went to a conference.

In salt lake, kind of as a, she had a friend that was presenting us as a com. So we went down to support. And it led to a conversation around what would it look like? To [00:07:00] have a practice and what would we want our practices to have and be different. Than where we will both practicing at the time. And, and that conversation led to other conversations around dreaming and hoping for something better. And then within, oh, I don't know, two years, maybe two years, maybe less than two years.

we had, we were doing it and we were, we were living that ideal.

Janae: Do you feel like those things that you wanted different got implemented? And if so, what were they.

Penney: No, not as much as we would like them to. Our ideal was always having a practice that was more rounded. Holistic, holistic. Yeah. I don't, I don't even know if holistic, but really just pulling in all the pieces. Right? So maybe holistic, some people look at holistic is very granola II.

That was not necessarily the view. That there is a mental health component, but recognizing that nutrition and exercise and family and support [00:08:00] systems and all of those pieces really are important, which is some of the bringing in of Janae and her yoga practice. As a part of that. And. The other piece of that was us wanting to have a space where other clinicians can come in and start their own practice and feel supported.

Without the fear-mongering, but knowing that they can do that. And also having the collaboration, but you mean amongst clinicians and having space to be able to do yoga, to have a space for exercise as. Exercise is so important for mental health and have a new nutritionist that worked out of that space. So really having a building.

Uh, or, uh, Really a building, right. It really would encompass a building where you can have all those pieces there for people to come and really get health and wellness

Janae: all around. So it's a goal that still inaction. Yes,

Penney: absolutely.

It's still an action. Something. We talk about something we haven't talked about for a while. Probably need to [00:09:00] readdress. I think catching our breath after this big. step and then again, building, what is the next step? What does that look like? And where are we

Janae: headed? Well, I feel like both of you are still catching your breath after COVID.

Penney: Yes, absolutely. That had a huge impact on our practices. Not in the way. Maybe people would think that.

going telehealth and, and, uh, loss of business, but really the impact of mental health. The impact COVID had on mental health and the size of our wait lists that I'm bringing clients on that have been on my wait list for 18 months. And. Able to finally see them now. And in the pressure that comes with being a clinician and knowing how many people are hurting.

And in need of, of support and help and not being able to give that is a huge amount of pressure. On Jenny and I both, as we've talked about that. And so both of us trying to accommodate the community's needs as best we could and, wearing ourselves out in the process. So we're still trying to catch our [00:10:00] breath and rebalance after that. So after that,

And I do think that's something as a society we're going to be, I mean, worldwide, not just our society here in Idaho falls, but worldwide that. We are going to be recovering from for years.

Janae: Yeah, definitely. I get to see that also. On the flip side of. Being in charge of keeping that waitlist in charge of calling.

People back and having to tell them, I'm sorry, we don't have we not a space for you. I was talking to another clinician in town. And she was saying that she really sees in the future more.

Offerings around psychoeducation being a little bit of a missing piece. So people who feel like there could be a step in between no therapeutic intervention at all. And one-on-one therapy there being some psycho-education groups and things in the middle. [00:11:00] And that's really where I see. Our collaborative business with Hilltop, as well as my personal business around a trauma yoga practice.

And burnout coming in and maybe being that middle piece and that stop

Penney: gap. Yup. Yeah, I agree. That's needed. definitely we have designed and are in the process of designing. Uh, workshops and other ways to be able to support the community. That can help more people than one at a time in an effort to be able to do that because there's such a

Janae: need.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it becomes a bottleneck issue when there is so much inflow and you can only see them one at a time. Yeah. As you were saying. Yeah.

Penney: So Janae, what hurdles have you overcome as part of starting your business?

Janae: It's interesting because there's so many parallels between what you said versus what I have reflected on with this question of hurdles. Definitely. The biggest was mental, right. Mental hurdles around. [00:12:00] Can you do it? Is it.

And it was less, you dis you described like financial responsibility and pressure from family. to hold that. But for me, it was more. Fear around failure. And fear around people seeing me fail. So striking out and trying to. Do my own thing came with a lot of internal work on working through those insecurities and working through.

That perception of what does it mean to fail? What does it mean to succeed? And so, yeah, there was a lot of mental hurdles around that. There was a while that I was working in a coaching, a group coaching program. And I had a really hard time just calling myself a business owner, which is quite funny.

Because at the time. I had [00:13:00] not only started the yoga practice, but we had started the collaborative. So I was helping run two businesses. but yeah, I had her own. A hard time. Labeling myself as a business owner. And there was the same amount of fear-mongering within the yoga.

Spaces that I was in, not only with it's really hard and it's almost impossible to succeed at if you go out on your own, but also. Some interesting. Nuances within contracts is yoga teachers with big studios of you're not allowed to leave. There was not allowed to teach within nine years within a certain radius of the studio. I used to work at.

So it was like getting a lawyer, figuring out what my rights really were standing up for myself. And.

Having a voice in making the [00:14:00] decision to, to do what I, I knew I wanted to, similar to you at, there were things going on in the studio that I used to work at, that I would didn't agree with. And I didn't like. Working around and having to play by someone else's rules. And so it was really freeing to, to eventually overcome those hurdles and start my own thing.

No, I think also. I've said this. Before, I don't know, on the podcast, but the ability to have a space to come and work. here at the office. If I did not have that space. This would be a. A very long shot. And just around the financial aspect of being able to do it and having. Supportive. Business partners.

To be able to have that flexibility around my schedule. Yeah, that makes sense. So, yeah. All right. Our next [00:15:00] question is what relationships were most important to you when beginning a business and how have those.

Penney: Changed. I kind of spoke to this a little bit. Definitely supportive relationships would be, my partner.

Who has always been my biggest fan and in my corner, a hundred percent, I, I can say in the, the 22 years we have been married, I have never had a moment. I guess 21 years. Sorry. I haven't had a moment that he has ever doubted my ability to get my complete, my education and have my own practice. He's always been very supportive of that.

And I appreciate it. I appreciate him very much for that. And I have very supportive children who, um, Tina helped me do furniture, so it was low cost. We, we. Bought chairs for five bucks and fixed them up and designed an office that way and did a lot of, of the hard work and [00:16:00] the figuring out a website and.

Finding the right EHR. There's a lot of pieces in that. That definitely had a lot of support coming from my family. And then, Jenny and I talked about, um, Jenny ketose, who is my. Kind of partner in crime. And who has also very supportive and going through those fears together and really the one to be able to say, Hey, let's dream for something different. And what does that look like? And how do we help and support each other in that process?

Yeah, it was also really fortunate. That I had applied for a contract. That really took me out of practice for somebody else and into my own practice. And then I, I, uh, worked With Chris a little bit on the side, Chris Martin. And he was really supportive of me building my own business and building my own practice and has been an amazing support along the way when I was in the middle of don't have an office, but I'm starting to do this. And he said, well, I've space. Come in, sit on my couch.

It's okay. If you need to build up capital in order to get that moving [00:17:00] forward, it. Incredibly supportive around that. So I had a lot of people in the community that were supportive. And had the opportunity to have a contract with the county. The took me out of working in another practice, which helped me a little bit with that. No compete clause that you were talking about, that a lot of clinicians get into.

Do you think. Does a terrible disservice. To our clients that if you want to work with a certain clinician or a certain yoga teacher, Then either they have to stay there or you're required to switch to somebody else instead of that freedom to be able to move. It's a, I think it's a terribly controlling.

And an unfair practice that I don't necessarily agree with. I'm sure there are purposes around that in other places, but in this con this situation, I don't feel like

Janae: it's appropriate. Yeah, I think that there's so much mentality around scarcity it's scarce scarcity based mentality of. [00:18:00] You know, we only have so much, so we have to hoard it all to ourselves. There's definitely that.

That I've seen from yoga studio owners that I've worked for, that it is a fear of. There's only so many people within the area that want to do yoga. So we have to try and safeguard against anyone else coming in and offering anything. It's like, that's not true. Yeah. And there can be differences in nuances between how each teacher and what they offer.

They're going to pull in a certain personality of clients in a certain type of client that wants a specific thing. And so that means that also. I'm not going to be the yoga teacher for everyone, which means people are going to need someone else that gives them what they need. And so, yeah. Having less fear and scarcity mindset around that is

Penney: important. Yeah. I always say.

therapists are like shoes. there's a lot of different sizes and fits and styles. And there's people that fit [00:19:00] into those and there's people that don't and that's okay. So we can support each other as a community and build as a community instead of needing to. Have that scarcity mindset. So yeah, absolutely.

how have my relationships changed as the time has gone on. Definitely more confidence with myself and a different perspective on that scarcity mindset and the view of needing to support each other as a community. And my relationships, I would say with my partner and family. I don't know that those have changed a whole lot, still supportive and still in each other's corner and cheering each other on. and.

This is a side tangent maybe, but kind of have a memorable moment. When I graduated with my bachelor's degree. you just stay at university. If you have kids gives your kids their own diploma. And I was able to get one of those for all three of my kids, who I had at the time. And, those mean a lot [00:20:00] because they really are where the, the driving force behind that progress

Janae: in life.

Yeah, someone. That was that. Extra push of. Seeing them day-to-day this is what you're working towards.

Penney: Yeah. Push whine. Absolutely. So, so definitely, those faces and that support hasn't changed. my relationship with Johnny still good supportive. I joke all the time, our offices are kind of divided and have doors in between. So I've joked before about, well, if we ever break up, I'll just lock the middle door, which I don't see ever happening.

As we work well together and have similar ideals and support with each other. And that's a friendship that I value. I don't have a lot of friendships. And so definitely that friendship with her is, is important to me and something that I safeguard and that she's still the person that I collaborate with and talk with. And.

We have weekly meetings to be able to support each other around the process that we're going through. So I would say those relationships have continued to grow. [00:21:00] And, maybe I've changed more in my view of myself. As a business owner or as, I mean, really. I think. As a clinician. I really just still look at myself as a clinician, not as a business owner.

recognizing I have a practice, but my, my identity hasn't necessarily changed.

Janae: Yeah, I would say that. The relationships that were most important to me as I was getting started or.

As you said. With having a supportive partner and then supportive family. That was definitely the case. But also having.

People who were Either already. In the industry and doing it or having also you and Jenny. There to kind of give me a leg up or a leg in of. Do these groups for our clients. And that was kind of like an easy way to dip my toe in and start doing things on my own. And then. [00:22:00] I ended up finding a.

Online group of yoga teachers led by someone based out of Australia and she was extremely helpful in that group. And community was extremely helpful of. Being around like-minded yoga teachers who all wanted to break out of the studio model and do their own thing and start their own businesses. So having that community.

Not only to lean on and listen to, but also to gain so much insight from, I learned so much. in that short amount of time that I was with that group. And so that was something that was incredibly valuable of. Hearing people going through the same things. You're like, oh, it's not just me. And also gaining the insight that they had already gleaned from, from their own experiences and being able to share that was really helpful. I would say that the relationships for me have changed in that.

I'm no longer a part of that group. [00:23:00] I would still be if it was available, but it ended up dispersing. And so I've. I've been kind of looking for a more local community for that. One of my goals this year is actually to try and step out of my own little bubble and engage with other yoga teachers within the community. Again.

It's been hard. I feel like. I got burned when I left the studio that I was at and it became a really. Unsafe space from what it felt like of. Not knowing what teachers had been told, what there were a lot of rumors flying around. And that was hard. And so I feel like I got really cut off of the yoga community within Idaho falls. And so I'm, I'm trying to restart and reconnect in that way.

some other changes that have happened. It's more working with other [00:24:00] businesses on a collaborative basis. So working with you and Jenny with your private practices to serve your clients, but then also talking with other counseling agencies within the community on how can I be a support either to their clinicians or to their clients.

And starting to build those relationships, those professional relationships. And that has been a really big hurdle for me. Feeling confident enough to be able to go and.

Present myself in that way. Not feel like I'm imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome. He strikes hard with that one. Um, so yeah, just collaborating more with different clinicians and different counseling agencies within Idaho falls. So starting to build that more, I would say.

All right. the next question we have is how have the dynamics. Shifted. And what was that shift like for [00:25:00] you moving from a. From, you know, all the past employment that you have done has been more of a, from an employee aspect. And now that shift into. Owner. Boss, if you have employees, which you do, I don't, And so I guess for me more of the collaborative experience, What were those shifts like for you?

Penney: I guess one funny shift is I really didn't stay at a job for more than two years. I had a two year shelf life that I was done. And pretty consistent with that until you're your own boss. You can't really just decide one day.

That you quit and you walk away from yourself. So, there's definitely a shift in responsibility and in freedom to be able to move. And instead of needing to have a new job or get a new job. I've added to it. my guess is if you break it down, I started the wraparound job. Two years later started the practice. Two years later, started with the [00:26:00] collaborative.

And so. So really I still have it to yourself, shelf life. It's just a little bit different. It's changed a little bit with that. so really as an employee versus employer. I don't. I think I I've always been very self-directed and as a clinician, you really have to be. So I do think the employee part of it.

Is. Nice. There's not that. I guess I've never really needed that somebody else's permission. And I've never handled that somebody else's permission very well. So the step to being able to hold myself accountable, make the choices for myself. Those were really easy shifts for me. There wasn't a lot of, of, needing to have directive, or I need someone to tell me how to do this or what to do that definitely wasn't there for me.

That was just a really unnatural part of the transition and has been really freeing. I've had some really abusive work situations that I'm really happy to not be a part of anymore. [00:27:00] Maybe as a another side note. When we're talking about the me too movement and some of the situations that happened around that and sexual harassment in the workplace.

as a gen X-er I was a part of that. And, and swept up in that and how that view was so normal and so pervasive in the workplace about how women were treated. I was in a. one of the jobs I had, even in my professional career. So as a clinician where there was a meeting being had, and the idea was, well, we have to take the pretty counselors and make sure you're wearing low. Cut enough shirts.

And this is how you present yourself in order to get contracts. And it's really nice to be able to be in a work situation where I don't have to have any concern about sexual harassment. I'm not going to sexually harass myself. And to not have someone who is going to put pressure [00:28:00] on me. For how I need to look and how I need to present.

And, put weight around sexuality and myself as a female. And I feel a lot of freedom around that and the ability to also show up as a strong, independent female and business owner and not have people threatened by that, because that has happened at every clinical job I have had. There has been some amount of threat.

About my strong personality and my work ethic that somehow I'm going to, I used to joke that yet it's happened again. I'm going to take over the world. And that happened at every job that I had, that if you really pushed to your full potential, people are threatened by that. And so it's nice to know.

I can work at my full potential. And nobody is threatened by that. And it just propels me forward. Instead of becoming a, uh, a barrier or a problem. as far as being an employer, my only employee is Janae and I. Joke about how, I don't know if that's a great example, but maybe it is because we really have less of an employer [00:29:00] employee relationship because I really don't boss Jeanette around. It's generally the other way that I get Boston more than she bosses me.

not in a negative way, but definitely more of a collaborative. And I think from a level of appreciation that I recognize I can't do what every day without her. And she can't do what she does every day without me. And so it's less about employer employee and more about mutual respect that we each have a role and that the businesses and successful without each being able to, to play our role and be a part of that. So I don't look at it as a hierarchy thing. I look at it as much more of a collaborative thing, which is.

Something that I wish was present in a lot more. Uh, workplace relationships.

Janae: Yeah, definitely. It is funny because. That is part of my role of being hired mostly as your professional nagger. Um, you know, this needs done and I'm tracking this and, you know, This got [00:30:00] missed, or we need to go back in and get this paperwork, figure it out.

Um, so it is funny that that is it. The dynamic that has ended up. Not becoming the dominant part of the dynamic, but definitely. Yeah. Kind of turns that employer employee on its head, where there are definitely other. Employment experiences that I've had, where. The. People quote, unquote, higher up than you would feel.

Very disrespected. If you talked to them in that way, or it was like, you're getting hunted a certain standard, but if that got flipped around on them, they would feel. Extremely. Upset put off. it's just different, right? I have in my notes here, that the difference between being a part of something small and more grassroots than a multilevel business operation, Of working, you know, from an example of like a retail work [00:31:00] experience where you have no say in how anything works, you're just told what to do, show up and do it to the best you can. And then leave. I really don't work well in those kinds of situations. I like to have creative freedom. I like to be able to have input on what we're doing and I like to know why.

I am a constant questionnaire. It's a huge part of my personality of. Why are we doing it this way? Why does this rule need to apply? Um, You know, those kinds of questions that business employers don't necessarily like or take kindly to. So that's been. A nice shift of. You in our business relationship. And then also in my personal business relationships, people really take that now more as a strength of mine, of being able to be creative around solutions and.

Asking. You know, why are we working at this way? Is [00:32:00] there a different workaround? Is there more flexibility around this? And using those. It's seen as a strength instead of a weakness, basically. Um, so that has been really nice. And. It's been nice. Moving from working at a yoga studio where. There was.

Some flexibility around things. As far as like, when I took the seat of the teacher and I was in class. I'm teaching the way I want. I don't care what the name is on the schedule. I'm teaching what the students is more, what the students want. That's how I teach my classes of stepping in and asking, what do you need? Do we need to.

Have a slower practice. Is there something specific you want to do with your body? And so. Not necessarily with that, but more of like pricing and contracts and what times and places are we going to have classes and. And [00:33:00] things more like that. That it's nice to have more control over and Get out from underneath someone's thumb in that way. And also it's nice to be able to have freedom over. The marketing, the name. What. I find important for a yoga practice is very different from the other studios that I've worked at, where it was more around. Like the origins of yoga and more about the philosophy of yoga. Whereas now,

I'm very much so more based on being. Trauma informed. And open to all body types. And how do you create an experience where anyone can enter the room and despite their experience, their body. There. History, they can feel comfortable and welcome to take a yoga class. And that's very different from how I used to.

Have to teach. So. Yeah. [00:34:00] It's also been an interesting shift of working. In a professional setting. Fo with family. You know, we went through a few. Bumps in the road of. Figuring out that dynamic and. And week, and we'll probably end up talking about that more in our part two episode, but.

Yeah, that was an interesting shift in dynamics of how do we learn? Not only. How to work together. As an employee and boss, but then how do we learn when we're outside of a work environment too? Let go of work, right. We're not talking about it and we can have that dual relationship. so yeah. Those are those kinds of shifts for me.

All right. So our next question is. What strengths have you. Discovered or. Maybe what weaknesses have been uncovered with

Penney: [00:35:00] starting your own business?

Honestly, I'm not sure. strengths I've discovered. What about for you? Maybe you could think of them faster.

Janae: Um, I think some strengths that I discovered in these. My, um, like I like to. Organize things, plan things out. I like using. The different. imaging. Software stuff to create.

Social media posts and creating the logos and. So, I guess that more graphic design element. has been a fun thing to play around with and discover and work on. And also recognizing. The slightly double edged sword that is. The strength of. Knowing what I want to do. And knowing the path forward that I see is the best path forward as a business. [00:36:00]

And then being able to have a really strong concrete plan. But developing, I guess this is more where it's something that I've had to develop as a strength is. Being flexible around that and not being too stuck to the plan. To the point that it hinders you. So, yeah, those are the things that come to my mind.

And

Penney: I do think being a business owner allows the strength of. Professional identity. That really, you're not trying to fit into somebody else's mold or somebody else's business model or somebody else's business image, but you really get to create your own and create your own strengths around that, which is really.

freeing. And a lot of ways.

Janae: Yeah. And talks to people who it's like they have. No desire to have to do that. they just want to work under someone else and, you know, just do their best [00:37:00] in their little niche. Part of the company or business, and they don't want the responsibility of having to come up with.

All the extra stuff that you were just talking about. So

Penney: it's interesting, kind of that soft branding. How do I want to show up in the world as a business? And professionally. I enjoy that. The choice around. which clients I see which clients I don't, which populations I'm interested working with, which ones I'm not. And also there's this idea.

In the counseling field, that if you have a master's degree, you must know how to do it all, which is a complete fallacy. You don't learn how to work with. Every population, every disorder and every theory in school. And it's really nice to be able to do those that I'm comfortable with and really be able to serve the community in the way that is most helpful to the community and to my clients and not need to front.

In, [00:38:00] in a way that the dust doesn't feel real. And it doesn't help people the best way

Janae: possible. Yeah, you get the flexibility of saying I'm either going to take the time and energy to do further training for this population. If I want to work with them. Or saying that it's just not a population that you have training with and you don't have the time energy or.

Or want to do that training? so that flexibility

Penney: is, is nice. Yeah, it's really nice. And I do think it. It makes me a better clinician and a better business owner. Absolutely. I do think another strength or maybe a weakness if we're talking about weaknesses. social media is a, is a weakness for me. That was interesting.

coming out of a master's program years ago, where really it was, you don't show up in the world. As a person, but as kind of a blank slate for what your clients need and you [00:39:00] keep your personal life. Very, very personal. And starting the business that ideal has shifted to people need to know about you and who you are.

And having to step into the world of social media is still a challenge for me. It's not something that I'm really comfortable with. It's not something that I, have learned to do understand the importance of it and why society has changed in that direction, but still a weakness. And. And a challenge for me.

Janae: Yeah. it's funny Because. We're sharing. Depending on the week and depending on the topic, but we're sharing. internal stories about our own lives and stuff on the podcast.

Penney: Yep. I'm breaking out of the mold, trying to make a challenge, a strength. Yeah, so, but, you can talk about how long it took you to convince me to do the podcast.

And what a challenge it, it is. And it was to even wrap my, my brain or my, uh, willingness around doing that. [00:40:00] Yeah.

Janae: Yeah. That makes sense.

 All right. This episode is sponsored by Hilltop wellness. Hilltop wellness is a event company based in Southeastern Idaho. They provide online courses, retreats, and day events for personal development and couples therapy. Hilltop wellness invites you to join them on a healing nature or treat this summer.

You can get more information about those retreats and accompany. At w w w dot Hilltop wellness.net. And we'll be sure to link that website in the show notes.

All right. We're down to our last little bits here of. It takes two to tango. What boundaries did you have to set and work around for finding out work life balance?

Penney: I think that is. Always a [00:41:00] challenge for me. Other than I really have focused on work at work and home at home. So if that means I have to come into the office on weekends, or I come in early in the morning, or I stayed later to do work.

I try really hard not to take it home with me. I have a computer at home if needed. especially if I'm sick and need to do tele-health. So it is an option, but I really, and, and I do have a home office. So if I am doing work at home, it is in the office. It is not anywhere else in the space outside of that. And I keep that as very sacred space. So that's part of finding that work-life balance for me.

So work done in my office office. Or in my home office also just not talking about it outside of those spaces. Not wanting it to be a part of my. My life with my partner and my life in general, that when I'm, it's this funny idea that when you become a counselor, that people treat you differently. because they think you're going to analyze them or.

Talk to them or, [00:42:00] and so I have very strict rules around. We don't, we don't tell people what I do. And the family knows. I feel strongly about that. And, and it's this joke that maybe I'm overreacting, but in January, I was on vacation with my partner. And we had met a couple and had talked with him several times. And then before we left,

my husband had told them what we did and the first thing the guy said is, oh, my wife does this, do you think she's crazy? And what would you recommend she do about it? And that was the first comment and came and sat down me. And it was really awkward because that's not, I'm not on vacation to do that.

I don't want to answer those questions and I'm not in a place that that's comfortable for me. so finding that balance is really my identity outside of the office is not clinician. It's not counselor and it's not what I'm doing all of the

Janae: time. Yeah, I can relate to that. From the yoga perspective of telling people that I'm a yoga teacher and.

There's a few different reactions, but. A lot of [00:43:00] the time, it's like, oh, let me tell you about. An injury that I have, give me tips on how to, to do stretches around it or. I'm on a weight loss journey. Tell me how to use yoga to lose weight. And I'm like, I don't believe in that. How do you kindly tell either a stranger or someone.

That you know, you know, on maybe a more personal level that it's like, that goes against my whole belief system. I don't use yoga for weight loss. I don't think anyone needs to do anything for weight loss. so. That's difficult to deal with, or there's always people treating it more like a joke of I'm a yoga teacher and they're like, oh, I could never do yoga. I can't even touch my toes. And I'm like,

Touching your toes has nothing to do with yoga. Yeah, glad that that's the. cultural stigma phenomenon around it that everyone thinks that that's the whole point of it, but it's like, Yeah. It's annoying. So I, I get that. I don't [00:44:00] like telling people that I do that either. When people ask me. I recently a few months ago, went to get my haircut in.

I hate talking

Penney: to hairdressers. Did I don't tell people, please don't

Janae: talk to me. They always ask, what do you do? And I don't ever tell them. That I'm a yoga teacher. I tell them that I work at your office because I do part-time, but I do the business, other business part-time. But, I tell them that I work at a counseling office as your.

office administrator, which is true, but it's not the whole truth, but it's easier to tell people about that than it is about the yoga teacher thing, because I don't want to deal with all those responses. Yeah. That's

Penney: that, uh, Ray Stevens song when he's like, when you go to get your hair cut. Picture you go back home.

That I'm a logger. Cause I do that. I think that every time I sit down and they say, what do you do? And I like, what can I tell them that I do that will not lead me to having to have a counseling session while somebody's cutting my hair? So it's uncomfortable and I don't [00:45:00] choose to do that. So, yeah, I, I understand that and the judgment and I, I don't think we're the only business owners or the only professions that have that. I really encourage people when.

Somebody says, so tell me about you. That doesn't mean, tell me what you do for a living. That's not who you are. That's what you do. And those are two very different things. So I try really hard to focus on who I am as a person, not what I do as a profession. Not that that doesn't have. You know, overlapping parts and pieces to it, but it's not who I am. It's what I do. Yeah.

Janae: It's interesting because the research that I've done around cultural differences.

Within that mentality is the Western view is your whole identity is around what you're doing, what your profession is. And because we're raised in that kind of a culture, it's really hard to answer that question without saying what you do. It's like, oh, who am I? If I'm [00:46:00] not a counselor, if I'm not a yoga teacher, if I'm not a.

I don't know what, you know, your myriad of other employee thinks, but. So it can be really hard for people to step into that. And it might even be a scary alarm of like, I don't know who I am outside of what I do. And. It's interesting that in some of your Eastern cultures, Most of your Eastern cultures, it's less focused around what you do. And in some of them, it's actually disrespectful to talk about your job in personal settings, because that's not what the point is.

Or that's not what they're asking.

Penney: I wish that was more so honored here. And one of my master's classes, we actually covered that, professional identity. In your personal time and how much of that reflects and what your responsibility is. And really the theme of the class or the theme of the. The unit we were on was, you're always a professional and your license is always on the line. [00:47:00] So interesting. Watch out. If you get a DUI, how is that going to impact your license and how's that going to impact your practice? If you.

Uh, our scene or doing a certain thing or out a certain place, or there was case examples of ways that that came up and that really instills fear. To the, well, if I'm shopping on the weekend, I still need to look like a professional and I still need to have full makeup and hair done. And don't wear your sweats outside the house and definitely don't go out and your yoga clothes, right.

There's a lot of stigma around that, that I've really pushed back against and probably the last three years where if you do see me on the weekend, I'm not going to look like I do in my office because I'm a different person in that way that I'm not a professional I'm showing up as me. Not that I won't act professionally.

If I see a client or I won't do things that will threaten my practice because I am always mindful of that. And that is important.

Janae: We wrapped so much of our identity around what we do that it's like from a young age, it's like, what's your, [00:48:00] What's your dream job. And it's like, does that match your personality? Your pushed pushed, pushed into this pipeline of.

You know, what, what do you want to be willing to go on to be when you grew up? And then it's like, what do you want to go to college for? It's like, what? And then what is your profession like? It's. It's such a giant part of. How we develop our personalities and how we relate to people that yeah. Has caused some interesting.

Issues in our society.

Penney: Absolutely.

Janae: And I think maybe that could be a part of the reason why this whole. Term around work-life balance has gotten to the point. It is because we don't know how to have that balance because so much of our identity is wrapped around what we do.

Penney: Yeah, for me, the big part of balancing started with being outdoor, because if I am available for a phone.

Then I am on call I'm on call twenty four seven to [00:49:00] be there for clients for needs, for crisis situations. And that's a contract that I signed and something that I agree to. I have an agreement with Jenny, my office, mate, that if I'm. out of service that she covers and if she's out of service, I cover. And so when I do take vacation, I take vacation in the mountains where there is not service. I didn't do a lot of.

Camping and I'm spending time on my ATV. Before, and I do now, it's definitely changed the way I vacation that I vacation in places where I'm unavailable so that I, I can have a reason to not have to be on call, which is interesting that I can't just set the boundary, but there's that. That idea around, I don't want to burden her. But that I do need time away. And so that's a way to do that. So it's interesting. The boundaries that I've pushed in order to create work-life balance that. The definitely my vacation and my time away spots are someplace where you cannot reach me. And that I can show up without my hair done in a ponytail with no makeup on and shorts and tank tops, if I want to. And [00:50:00] nobody cares.

Janae: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, letting go of that. Yes.

Penney: All those parts that get to fall away. When I'm in a space where I don't have to show up that way and the Mount that that's free. Yeah,

Janae: definitely.

All right. Are you ready to spin the wheel for our question?

Seven. All right. So that's an odd. What do you do to take care of your body during work hours? Try to walk. We are in a three-story building. So I try and do some stairs in between. Do some stretches and drink. I drink a lot of water during the day. And sometimes just lay on the couch and take a break when I need to take a break.

Penney: yeah, those are probably the big things for me. If it's warm enough outside or I can't get outside, then I take a lap around the building.

Janae: Yeah. Nice. All right.

What do we get the eight. Okay. So our even question [00:51:00] is what does burnout mean to you? I think. Burnout. Is an important. Signal. An important tool. That we try really hard to.

Talk about it as like, Don't get burnt out. Don't move towards burnout. But on the flip side, Burnout is a really helpful. Signal that something needs to change. That. You need more supports that? You know, there's an issue that needs solved. And so if we don't have something, a red flag like that, that comes up.

Then those things continue to build up and build up and build up until maybe there's a bigger fire down the road. So burnout to me means that. There is some extra pieces that maybe need to come into play and more supports that need to be. Put into place. So that we can continue doing the work. [00:52:00] That we are so passionate about.

Without. The hindrance of. Feeling overwhelmed.

All right. Rapid fire.

what are you most looking forward to? Over the next.

Oh, The next month. I don't know that I have any major plans. We're looking forward to this for the next month. I guess the thing I'm most looking forward to the next month is spring. Being able to have. warmer temperatures or I don't have to wear a coat. Being able to take my hat and gloves out of my bag because I am no longer worry about having the snow.

Penney: Creep up during the day while I'm at work and getting to go home. Getting to go home in the cold and not having to use the four wheel drive for at least a month would be nice. Oh, that's probably what I'm most looking forward to. Nice. Rapid fire question for you. What's one goal you have for yourself for the next two months.

Janae: I have the goal to.

[00:53:00] There's a few things within like spring cleaning around my house that I really want to prioritize and get done. So those are kind of the big goals of. Doing some reorganization and some clearing out of a few spaces in my house. I've done a good job of. Kind of moving slowly through this room by room so that it doesn't get overwhelming. And I notice such a huge, different difference when I go into those rooms, I'm like, oh, this feels so nice. It's such a cathartic experience or a really big form of like self care too.

To set up a space that feels. Nice and comfortable in. Aesthetically pleasing. so. I would say that continuing on that project. And. Slowly working through each room in my house. Is. One of those goals for me, makes sense.

All [00:54:00] right. We made it to the end of our episode here. So, again, this was part one of our two part series and next episode, that will be coming out. There's going to be two new voices coming at you on the pod. and we're going to be talking with our two other business partners. More around. relationship dynamics within our professional relationships together.

So you can look forward to that. And just a reminder, if you want to check out our Patrion, we offer little mini episodes. Companion episodes that go along with each of our main episodes. So if you want to dig deeper or get more specific, actionable steps on how to help. With some of the topics that we're going through, be sure to go check out the Patrion.

You can do that@patrion.com. Backslash untangling [00:55:00] relationships and they think maybe the companion epidsode for this one will either be on work-life balance or on burnout. What do you think? Yeah, I like both of those topics.

Yeah. So. How work-life balance. Um, combats burnout. Yeah. That's a good one.

So some actionable steps, some tools that you can use to create. More work-life balance and prevent burnout. Absolutely. Well, so if you want to hear that, go check out the Patrion and until then we will Talk to you next time. See ya. Bye.